Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Engineering/Technical
Engineering/Technical Ask technical questions about cars. Do you know how a car engine works?
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2009, 02:47 AM   #1
CL8
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,732
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
what else is brake fluid called?

Does anyone know another common word or term used for brake fluid?


Thanks,
cl8
__________________
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
CL8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2009, 09:00 AM   #2
MagicRat
Nothing scares me anymore
 
MagicRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: City of Light
Posts: 10,702
Thanks: 12
Thanked 82 Times in 77 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Well, usually when you spill it on your nice clean fender, you call it "that ^&*@#$% paint stripper"!

Otherwise, I do not know of another name, although different types are referred to by their DOT rating (DOT3, DOT4, DOT5 brake fluid.)
MagicRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2009, 10:39 AM   #3
Blt2Lst
AF Enthusiast
 
Blt2Lst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: redondo beach, California
Posts: 646
Thanks: 4
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
Well, usually when you spill it on your nice clean fender, you call it "that ^&*@#$% paint stripper"!
I was going to say the same thing...
__________________
1989 Caprice Classic Wagon, Olds 307 ,SMI Q-Jet, 200R4 w/Shift kit, Flowmaster 50, Hotchkiss sway bars, KYB Shocks. Jet Chip,
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 5sp convertible
1992 Camry LE 2.2
1996 Suzuki RMX250


I'm a victim of circumstance [
Blt2Lst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2009, 06:37 PM   #4
curtis73
Professional Ninja Killer
 
curtis73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Penn Hills, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,561
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

brake line fluid? hydraulic brake fluid?

Just brake fluid is all I've ever heard.
__________________
Dragging people kicking and screaming into the enlightenment.
curtis73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2009, 06:51 PM   #5
CL8
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,732
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

double post
__________________
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

Last edited by CL8; 06-11-2009 at 10:05 PM.
CL8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2009, 07:04 PM   #6
CL8
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,732
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Thanks for the input.

This is frustrating because a web page on brake fluid I built was analyzed and told me the term "brake Fluid" (keyword) is used too much, the search engines will penalize me if I use the keyword too often.

Would it seem too awkward to just call it "BF"

Below is the text I'm told says "brake fluid" too much, anyone know how I could eliminate the word without eliminating info?

Quote:
Read your vehicle owners manual for specific recommendations for you car.
Checking brake fluid level:
There will be a small, rounded long container, probably near the back, under the hood, it will say "brake fluid" on it. The container is translucent with an easy to see full line. You won't even need to remove the cap. (Unless it is a very old vehicle.)
In the picture to the left you can see where the fluid level is. If you look close enough you can see a "max" line parallel with the fluid level, exactly what you want.


Having low brake fluid could be a sign your brake pads are wearing thin. Every other oil change you should have your tires rotated. Have your mechanic check the pads then.
If your brake pads are in good condition and you continue to have low brake fluid there is probably a leak in the brake line that should be repaired.
The big problem with brake fluid is, over time moisture collects in the brake line, lowering the fluid boiling point as much as 100 degrees F with just 3% water contamination.This can happen in as little as 18 months.
When the brake fluid boils, gas forms, causing the brake pedal to be pushed without any pressure being applied to the brakes. This is called brake fade,this seriously jeopardizes car safety and could obviously cause a serious collision.
*Once you have opened a container of brake fluid, it can easily gather moisture while sitting on the shelf. If you won't use it all in a short time, discard what you don't use.
Thanks,
cl8
__________________
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
CL8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2009, 11:19 AM   #7
MagicRat
Nothing scares me anymore
 
MagicRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: City of Light
Posts: 10,702
Thanks: 12
Thanked 82 Times in 77 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

I would suggest editing your page a bit. You can change 'brake fluid' to 'the fluid' a couple of times, until the page is deemed acceptable.

There are a couple of technical issues there, though. "Brake fade" also often refers to the loss of braking effect due to overheated rotors or drums, and pads or shoes. This is caused by the brakes being used more than their capacity to shed heat.

Such overheated material loses its ability to absorb additional energy so the brakes lose effectiveness. Furthermore, such excessive heating can crack or warp rotors and drums and glaze or degrade pads and shoes, thus permanently reducing their effectiveness, until they are changed.

Brake fade is a common factor in some kinds of auto racing. However, it is most often encountered when trailer towing or driving in mountainous terrain without taking sufficient precautions to reduce over-use of brakes, such as downshifting the transmissions on steep hills, etc. Older cars with drum brakes on all wheels are also more susceptible to brake fade.

Another point to mention is DOT 5 brake fluid will not absorb moisture and is a good alternative for vehicles which are not driven often. However, the entire braking system must be drained and flushed (with alcohol, I think) before DOT 5 fluid is installed.

If these comments are useful, feel free to use them in your site.
MagicRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2009, 01:56 AM   #8
CL8
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,732
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
I would suggest editing your page a bit. You can change 'brake fluid' to 'the fluid' a couple of times, until the page is deemed acceptable.

There are a couple of technical issues there, though. "Brake fade" also often refers to the loss of braking effect due to overheated rotors or drums, and pads or shoes. This is caused by the brakes being used more than their capacity to shed heat.
Good info, can this happen without the fluid boiling?
Quote:

Such overheated material loses its ability to absorb additional energy so the brakes lose effectiveness. Furthermore, such excessive heating can crack or warp rotors and drums and glaze or degrade pads and shoes, thus permanently reducing their effectiveness, until they are changed.
I read that the rotors don't actually warp, but rather it is debris from the pads getting on them that make them feel "warped"
Quote:

Brake fade is a common factor in some kinds of auto racing. However, it is most often encountered when trailer towing or driving in mountainous terrain without taking sufficient precautions to reduce over-use of brakes, such as downshifting the transmissions on steep hills, etc. Older cars with drum brakes on all wheels are also more susceptible to brake fade.

Another point to mention is DOT 5 brake fluid will not absorb moisture and is a good alternative for vehicles which are not driven often. However, the entire braking system must be drained and flushed (with alcohol, I think) before DOT 5 fluid is installed.

If these comments are useful, feel free to use them in your site.
Thanks for all the info Magicrat, when I make a page on braking techniques I will remember this info ( i was hoping to get some critique of my text)

if it's not against forum policy, I'll post my web adress so you can view it.

(I did find other ways to talk about "brake Fluid", using "brake line" and "braking system")

www.drivingtips.org/brakefluid.html
__________________
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
CL8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2009, 06:36 AM   #9
shorod
SHO No Mo
 
shorod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 10,946
Thanks: 99
Thanked 350 Times in 344 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

I would suggest changing the picture on the right to one a bit larger and showing the overall engine compartment so a person new to the brake system can see a common location to match your description. If you can get a photo of an engine compartment of a car with a hydraulic clutch, all the better. That way you can point out that the larger of the two reservoirs is for the brakes, the smaller being for the clutch.

The formation of gas/steam doesn't actually cause the brake pedal to be pressed. I know the point you were trying to make. For the curious reader, and to clarify things, you may change the sentence to something like, "The steam/gas formed when the moisture in the system boils will be easily compressed under pressure. This will cause a sensation of low brake pedal resistance along with low braking force in panic situations."

Also, as MagicRat suggested, not all brake or hydraulic fluids are hygroscopic. Since your write-up is mostly geared towards modern cars, you might add a paragraph suggesting that modern cars using DOT 5 are not as susceptible to moisture contamination and therefore the change interval may not be listed. However, even DOT 5 fluid can become contaminated over time and should be inspected regularly for discoloration and changed as necessary.

Since there are getting to be a few different types of brake fluids on the market, you might also add a paragraph listing the different fluids, what's completely compatible with other types, and again as MagicRat listed, what may have to happen is switching from one type to a specific different type. And of course, list the fallback of checking with the vehicle manufacturer and product packaging to be sure the fluid is compatible with the vehicle and other types. Since you do not appear to be aiming the page at the DIY'er so much, but more for pointing out the importance of brake system maintenance, the above addition may not be value added. You make the call.

Suggesting to the reader that brake fluid can damage paint and other materials and to be very careful not to get it on paint could be important as well.

-Rod
shorod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2009, 09:19 AM   #10
MagicRat
Nothing scares me anymore
 
MagicRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: City of Light
Posts: 10,702
Thanks: 12
Thanked 82 Times in 77 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

CL8, in reply to your points, yes, heat-related brake fade can occur without boiling the fluid. It's quite disturbing to experience it.... the brake pedal feels firm but pushing on it results in progressively less braking effect. Since disc brakes became very common in the 1970's, it's rare for the average driver to experience it.

However, it was a common occurence in cars with drums all around, especially for larger, American-made models.

As for warping, Curtis73 has written extensively here, where rotors can become contaminated by essentially baked-on pad material. This causes an uneven friction coefficient across the surface of the rotor, causing a pulsing effect when braking.

However, such a pulsing effect can also be caused by severe rusting and heat-related warping. I have verified rotor 'run out' when turning them on a brake lathe and the problem does exist.
I should add, though, rotors can also become warped due to uneven torquing of wheel nuts (or bolts). Often, mechanics tend to zip wheels on with an impact gun, often without using a criss-cross pattern and often over-torquing the nuts, or allowing the torque to be uneven from one nut to another.

A final point about DOT 5 fluid. As noted above, although this fluid does not absorb moisture, it is no excuse to neglect the braking system.
Also, I have read that DOT 5 fluid is more viscous than DOT 3 or 4 fluid and may alter braking performance. Personally, I have never used it, although I have several classic cars that are barely driven. I find bleeding/flushing the fluid every 3-4 years to be quick and easy, and gives me some insight into the condition of the brake system internals, so the change-over to DOT 5 is not warranted.
MagicRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2009, 02:48 AM   #11
CL8
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,732
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorod View Post
I would suggest changing the picture on the right to one a bit larger and showing the overall engine compartment so a person new to the brake system can see a common location to match your description. If you can get a photo of an engine compartment of a car with a hydraulic clutch, all the better. That way you can point out that the larger of the two reservoirs is for the brakes, the smaller being for the clutch.
Would that be only on a manual transmission or big trucks?
Quote:

The formation of gas/steam doesn't actually cause the brake pedal to be pressed. I know the point you were trying to make. For the curious reader, and to clarify things, you may change the sentence to something like, "The steam/gas formed when the moisture in the system boils will be easily compressed under pressure. This will cause a sensation of low brake pedal resistance along with low braking force in panic situations."
Maybe I should say"causing no pressure to be applied to the brakes when the pedal is pressed." Also when you say "sensation", do you mean there is actually more brake pedal resistance than it seems?


Thanks shorod for your other suggestions I'll consider them.


Quote:
the brake pedal feels firm but pushing on it results in progressively less braking effect.
And magicrat, am I correct in thinking in the statement above pressure is being applied to the brakes, but because of the law of physics stated below, there is no "braking effect?"

And I am assuming this is different than why the brakes fail with boiling brake fluid?
( It seems to me if the rotors/disks and pads were overheating, that would be enough heat to cause the brake fluid to boil)

Quote:
Such overheated material loses its ability to absorb additional energy so the brakes lose effectiveness
.


Thanks, cl8
__________________
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10

Last edited by CL8; 06-17-2009 at 03:19 AM.
CL8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2009, 06:34 AM   #12
shorod
SHO No Mo
 
shorod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 10,946
Thanks: 99
Thanked 350 Times in 344 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CL8 View Post
Would that be only on a manual transmission or big trucks?
It would only be on vehicles with a manual transmission AND a hydraulic clutch. Some manual transmission vehicles have a manual clutch and therefore no clutch master cylinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CL8 View Post
Maybe I should say"causing no pressure to be applied to the brakes when the pedal is pressed." Also when you say "sensation", do you mean there is actually more brake pedal resistance than it seems?
Some brake pressure will be applied, but due to the steam being compressable, it won't be nearly as much pressure as it should be. If you changed "no" to "very little" then your sentence sounds good. As for "sensation," I just meant it will feel like the pedal presses easier than it should, because it does. Maybe I should have typed "...causing the sensation of having no brakes" since the brakes will still have some effect.

-Rod
shorod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2009, 01:28 AM   #13
CL8
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,732
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: what else is brake fluid called?

Thanks Rod!
__________________
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:9-10
CL8 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD

Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Engineering/Technical

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 AM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts