5w-20 GF-4 oil Toyota approved for all Lexus engines March, 23 2006

[Toysrme]

So... I've been running mobil 1 5w-20 synthetic since January anyway. Good for me. Apparantly I missed that in March, Toyota put out a TSIB that approved 5w-20 GF-4 oils for use on most of the older engine blocks.
Which is fine for me. A couple horsepower, easier pumping, better cold starts, no downside. Everyone else should pimp it.

Like always. Mobil oil's put out phenominal stats on Toyota v6's (and ofhand, everything else).

[Brian R.]

I started using it in my Camry and 4Runner about 6 months ago. I have noticed a difference in mileage - for the better, of course.

[Toysrme]

I saw a dyno of 5w-20 VS 10w-40 synthetic (All GF-4 spec. 5w-20's are synthetic) on a small, 4cylinder honda engine. There was a 9whp peak power differance between the two. Both from the same company.

[Brian R.]

I wonder if there is any difference in top-end performance between 0W-20 and 5W-20? The 5W-20 should have more base oil and less VI improver since the difference in cold-hot engine viscosity doesn't need to be as much as in the 0W-20. Or maybe the 5-weight base oil has better (or worse) lubricating properties than the 0-weight base oil.

[ekpolk]

The original poster's interpretation of the TSB is incorrect. Right up in the header, and again in the middle of the first page, it clearly says that it applies ONLY to 06 and 07 model year vehicles. If your vehicle is a 2005 model or older, this TSB simply does not apply to you.

The TSB is ambiguous because it also lists, in the table, engines that went out of production (for US vehicles anyway) before the 06 MY. Don't be led astray by this error. If the TSB is N/A to your car, whether its content is right or wrong is irrelevant.

[Brian R.]

Originally Posted by ekpolk

The original poster's interpretation of the TSB is incorrect. Right up in the header, and again in the middle of the first page, it clearly says that it applies ONLY to 06 and 07 model year vehicles. If your vehicle is a 2005 model or older, this TSB simply does not apply to you.

The TSB is ambiguous because it also lists, in the table, engines that went out of production (for US vehicles anyway) before the 06 MY. Don't be led astray by this error. If the TSB is N/A to your car, whether its content is right or wrong is irrelevant.

It is my opinion that you are the one who is missinterpreting the TSB.

The reference to '06 and '07 model year vehicles is related to the first part of the TSB which states that "Toyota Motor Cormporation manufacturing plants have begun using ILSAC GF-4 engine oil." and "This oil has been set as the Toyota genuine engine oil, starting in February 2006 for the U.S."

The second part of the TSB shows (IMO) the engines that Toyota has either tested with the oils, or agreed that they are able to be used based on engine tolerances and clearances. That is why the 5W-20 has been allowed in more engines than the 0W-20, it is mush less of a viscosity change from 5W-30. The bottom part of the table which lists the allowed engines for 0W-20 clearly states that it is '06 - '07 engines only.

My local Toyota dealer has agreed with my interpretation and recommends use of 5W-20 in my 5VZ-FE engine, as long as the oil is GF-4.

This is no error. If you have proof of the error, such as a retraction by Toyota, then post it. Otherwise, this TSB is quite clear and is not to be considered an error.

[ekpolk]

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. The first thing I’ll note is that my dealership does not concur with yours. OK, sure, maybe that doesn’t mean much.

Ask yourself what’s in this decision for Toyota? It simply makes no sense that Toyota would blindly back-spec 5w-20 oil to a vast fleet of vehicles, many of which have very high miles and may be poorly maintained, without even a suggestion to have your engine looked over before making the switch. On the downside, there may be a considerable number of owners who may be very upset with Toyota if they have a bad experience. On the other hand, what do they stand to gain? A few people get a couple percent improvement in mileage. From this perspective, this change makes no sense. All risk for Toyota, no benefit. Why not just let the owners of older cars proceed on with the 5w-30 their engines have thrived on for so long.

Third, as you may know, Toyota maintains an extensive on-line technical database, On it, you can have complete access to all service manuals, TSBs, tech training pubs, campaign notices, and so forth, for all models. You can search and find just anything you’d want to know about any Toyota except those from the most distant past. After this question popped up, I noticed that my wife’s vehicle, a 2001 Sequoia, is powered by the 2UZ-FE V-8, and the 2UZ is on the list you guys are relying upon. By your logic, the subject TSB, EG018-06 obviously must apply to our 2001 Sequoia. Well, here is a screen shot of my search for all TSBs that apply to the 2001 Sequoia:

As you can plainly see, the subject TSB is missing from the list. This is Toyota saying that EG018-06 does not apply to the 2001 2UZ-powered Sequoia.

Then I ran the search again, but I changed the model year to 2006. As you probably know, the Sequoia has changed little over the years, and still, of course, has the same engine. This time, there it is, right there on the list: Not surprisingly, now that we’ve reached the 2006 model year, EG018-06 is there, consistent with the "applicable to 06 and 07" limitation on the TSB.

The implication is obvious and inescapable. Toyota itself has spoken, and they’ve indicated that they meant what they said. Applicable to 06 or 07 means just that. By the way, obviously, this isn’t the first TSB that Toyota has issued. If you look over a selection of them, you’ll see that they always say which vehicles are covered. Toyota determines which cars fall under a TSB. You don’t get to pick and choose which parts you want to apply to which cars and which you don’t.

[ekpolk]

Brian:

One more thought on this. If Toyota actually intended to back-spec in the fashion you believe they did, why would they do it in this fashion? An obscure list in a TSB that on its face says that it applies to 06 and 07 models? And, though they brought up the matter in a TSB that on its face is for 06 and 07 cars only, there's no mention of of the back-spec in all the TSBs for all rest of the cars supposedly back-spec-ed in a TSB that applies to them? Yes, I've run about a dozen, near-random searches on different models in TIS, and gotten zip. If a massive back-spec is what they intended, this is about the most implausible way imaginable to let people know about it.

[Brian R.]

Your inability to find your vehicle and others that you think should be covered is not relevant. This not a vehicle-specific claim on the pre-existing engines. This is engine-specific. Once they use 5W-20 in a vehicle on the assembly line, they are bound to place this recommendation into the owner's manual and other vehicle-specific publications. This is probably why they did it the way that they did. As for you or your dealership to interpret why they didn't do it some other way, well, I think your dealership had better do something complex like calling someone at Toyota and find out instead of speculating as you and they are doing.

Stop speculating and get some documentation. Otherwise, you have little credibility with the engine numbers specifically listed in the TSB. This sort of negates any speculation.

Post any communication you get on Toyota letterhead related to this TSB. That is the only information that is relevant to this discussion.

[Toysrme]

ekpolk, you're just too damned sensative to say you were wrong LoL!
First bobs (BOTG), now here. Why don't you go to ToyotaTuners, ClubLexus, and LexusOwnersClub & talk there too.


Like I said there more than once. You are wrong, the TSIB is back speccing entire engine families that are no longer in production in the US (And several have not been in world-wide production for a few years).






Go anywhere else, and I'll tell you the same, followed by other people. Give it a rest dude. Believe what you want, but the rest of us can read & comprehend. Nobody's forcing 5w-20 down your neck. Atleast until you go to a Lexus dealer in the future & find the "Lexus Genuine Oil" is all 5w-20.

[Brian R.]

I think I'm locking this thread to prevent it turning into a huge debate as it did in the BITOG forum. Read the TSB and decide for yourself. Until I hear from Toyota to the contrary, this thread stands as is. If I get feedback from Toyota that the above interpretation is incorrect, then I will post this information.