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Old 04-27-2015, 02:18 PM   #1
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No start....like 8 years ago

Last week, the engine stopped twice in the 2 minutes after initial start....but then managed to take me back home. Was away for 1 week (not with TS) then when back , tried to start ...no joy.
THis duplicates a similar event 8 years ago...solved with the ignition module being replaced.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=558604

NO codes.
THere are 2 options: crank sensor or ignition module. WIll go for some tests and will report.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:53 PM   #2
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

Just "coarse" trouble shooting :
Not the same...have no spark this time...
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Old 05-26-2015, 07:59 AM   #3
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

Well..I think I'm becoming a bit lazy...so I went blind for what seemed the most probable cause...that is, the ignition module. Got one from RockAuto ....but could not come to a decisive conclusion yet: after one month resting in my backyard, I just "tried" to start the TS "as is" ...that is before changing the module...and it just fired up.....so, the fact that it also fired up after I changed the module is no proof at all. I'm gonna drive it within "safe" distance for some time just to make sure it keeps firing...and will report.
THe new module (bottom) came without the seals that protect the coil contacts....I think the first replacement module had come with them but not sure. ANyway, it was a snap to switch them around. Also changing the module is just straight forward using 5.5mm (for coils ) and 7 mm (for the plug) sockets.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:23 PM   #4
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

make sure you put on new dielectric grease
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Old 05-29-2015, 06:27 PM   #5
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

Well..the guess was off the target. Now , while the engine will fire up all the time, and will not stop, there is an occurrence of occasional stumbles , like there is a very short loss of voltage from time to time...and now I have a DTC18 code for crank/cam sensor
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/dtc18.jpg
...and the diagnostic aid is revealing..see last line...
I have a crank position sensor...will look for a cam sensor too..will pull the balancer pulley probably next week
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Old 05-31-2015, 07:49 AM   #6
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

I read on this forum that a similar symptom was finally solved with the crank sensor replacement although the cam sensor had been replaced before...
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul....php?t=1039552
jeffrv did not specify how the job was performed...
Anyway I have ordered a cam sensor from RockAUto...inexpensive..
The shop manual is not precise about the replacement of the cam sensor..just telling it is located behind the water pump. The graphic
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/ckps.jpg
might suggest it can be “seen” at that location but I hope I do not have to remove the pump to get access..
Has someone else actually replaced the cam sensor on the 3.8 engine ? If access is too hard, I would probably begin with the crank sensor as it does not involve seals and I have done it before....
Anyway, waiting for the cam sensor before peeling off the wheel well...
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Last edited by LMP; 05-31-2015 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 05-31-2015, 11:10 PM   #7
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

When the crank sensor was diagnosed ( changed at dealer) I did get symptoms similar to you. It would always start, but would give, at random times, either a very short stumble ( ignition was cutting out then back in) or as time progressed, would stall out, even at 100KPH, Would usually restart right away, but not always- after a couple unsuccessful cranks would let it sit for about 5 or 10 minutes and would fire right up.
I had to change the ignition module this winter, it seems to be working OK, but like anything else, quality varies. The first one I got from an online supplier failed after 20 minutes. Check for the ground wires on the stud on the ignition module bracket. I had one break off and it gave minor but noticeable driveability issues until repaired. I have never had the cam sensor changed. If I understand the ignition system correctly, the cam sensor may only be needed during starting to tell the PCM when #1 cylinder is on compression, and schedule ignition and fuel accordingly. Once started, the engine might run without a cam signal
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Old 06-01-2015, 12:53 AM   #8
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

Thanks Jeffrv. THe stumble had begun several months ago but then would occur rarely..so rarely that I would question its nature, thinking sometimes it was a vibration from some crack on the road surface....
the problem did reveal as one when the engine stopped twice after starting about 7 weeks ago...but took me back home anyway....
with the new ignition module installed last week I risked using the car but then the stumble occured more often and more intense as I went for a run 65 km away and return....the engine never stopped but I will change both sensors now as it is clear the cause is there from the description in DTC18...
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:21 AM   #9
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

All is back to normal now that the crank sensor has been replaced: no more misses and hickups. Now I have a spare ignition module and a spare cam sensor .
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:55 AM   #10
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

mmmm....not exactly......I still have a hiccup occasionally....but no codes have shown yet
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:20 AM   #11
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

I started having some occasional misses in my TS, then last week it stalled a few times. It did throw a bunch of weird codes, so I suspected it was a wiring harness problem rather than a sensor problem. I disconnected the plug at the ignition module and the 30 pin engine to body harness, and checked for continuity. While checking, flex the wiring harness paying special attention to the 8 pin connector and the wiring bundle close to the 30 pin connector-I have had wires break internally there, from vibration I suspect. Sure enough, ckt 647 changed when I flexed the 8 pin connector-repositioning a pin inside the connector seems to have cleared it up. Then I found trouble in ckt 630 a couple inches from 30 pin connector-ran a jumper from good side to close to 8 pin connector, seems to be working ok now, at least for last several days
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:40 AM   #12
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

Thanks jeff.....indeed this possibility came to my mind but was too lazy to go for it at this very time, also wanting to analyse one cause at a time... However I went for a 200km run lately and no code related to this problem came up....and no misses either. I got a 44 code though, that had come before...this is oxygen sensor lean....so when this comes, it will run in open loop instead of closed loop, which brings a high probability of increased fuel buirn.....
will investigate....the O2 sensor is indeed 23 year old....but it may also relate to the suggestion you made....
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:06 PM   #13
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Re: No start....like 8 years ago

Ah..just for the record...got on this thread by accident and the solution was not shown..may be I had another thread about it but finally the ignition switch was the fail....it lost contact from time to time. I bypassed it with an external relay and problem disappeared...
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