Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > McLaren > F1
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-20-2006, 11:15 AM   #16
F1 monster
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Yes, but when the replica ends up looking pathetic it leads to a huge disconnect between the pride of the builder and the mockery of the general public. In that case, an entirely different car might be the better option, no?
F1 monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 02:23 PM   #17
carbuilder2002
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Durham
Posts: 1,209
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Send a message via MSN to carbuilder2002
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Errr escuse me? "Driving a replica is nearly as good as driving a REAL sportscar". My efforts in the past have usually outperformed and out handled the originals, and while I cant get the megga performance of the hallowed Mclaren the handling will certainly be close as the plan was to use Lotus Esprit Suspension / Steering with brakes the same size as the Mac.
Please don't get me re-opening the project I dont want to go to jail.

Not all replicas are nails, besides I'm a prototype development and design engineer of some 30 yrs experience.

I tend to think of my creations as hand built prototypes as have never finished a kit car yet, usually ended up selling it as a kit after dedesigning the bits I don't like.

carbuilder2002
carbuilder2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 04:01 PM   #18
F1 monster
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

If your kits are that much better, why not simply build your own body instead of trying to copy an existing one that it will always be judged against?
F1 monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 04:30 PM   #19
carbuilder2002
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Durham
Posts: 1,209
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Send a message via MSN to carbuilder2002
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

1st I don't build kits.
2nd by using modern technology in replicating 50's and 60's machinery the improvement in dynamics is almost guaranteed.
3rd why build replicas? I cant afford actual le-mans machinery.
4th I'm a pretty good engineer but do not profess to be in any way a stylist.
3rd having looked at some of the horrendous attempts at original design in the kit car field I conclude that I could not do any better.

Hence I build cars that I would own if I were a millionair, trust me if I won the lottery tomorrow my 1st call would be to Mclaren to source an F1 then maybe await the sale of a genuine D Type Jaguar.

Dont often get the chance to share my feelings on the pros and cons of replicas.

Last comment, I hate a badly built replica as much if not more than most probably because my job always demanded strict accuracy of any prototype, a vauge resemblence was just not good enough.

Cheers.
carbuilder2002
carbuilder2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 04:57 PM   #20
BMW.WilliamsF1Team
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Posts: 521
Thanks: 19
Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBotes
building a replica is not about the performance and handling of the original. it is about owning something that looks like your dream car. I so want a mclaren but i so can't afford it. Buying a (urgh) porsche (puke, puke) or a ferrari (which i still can't afford)would still be a better driving eperience, but i am a mclaren fan for a reason and that is cause the car is beautiful. So what if a replica is only 1% of the real thing.

I have seen so many replica cobras out there and i know that they are not cheap either. but even though it is not real i still admire those who make them. also people will know it is not real just as people know that 99% of cobraas on the road are not real. That doesn't deter from the fact that the replica is still a cool car. Id rather have a replica mclaren/cobra etc than drive a mini metro.

A replica is also not just about having a car that looks like the real thing. building a replica for some people is as much enjoyment as driving a real sportscar.

As a creator of sorts, growing up with legos, making my own furniture, having a hand in building my own home, the sense of achievement in building and finishing a project is a thrill in itself.
I don't really have a problem with replicas. The replicas I don't have a problem with are usually called recreations. Cars like the Porsche 917, Shelby Cobras, and GT40 (all MK variants) are very expensive to purchase an original. Plus, if you have the original, I very much doubt you would track it as hard as it was many years ago when raced. These cars are easily reproduced as "replicas" because the materials and design of the car's chassis and body is nothing that is incredibly hard to reproduce today for a fraction of the cost of real ownership. We're literally talking 1960s technology.

This is not the case for the F1. The enormous price of the vehicle today has a lot to do with the materials used and costs of production. It isn't something that could be replicated VERY CLOSELY like one can do with a GT40, Cobra, etc. These McLaren kits will always fall short of the real deals, unlike the Cobras or GT40s, and it just ends up being a mockery.
BMW.WilliamsF1Team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 07:25 PM   #21
amanichen
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: XCity
Posts: 347
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW.WilliamsF1Team
This is not the case for the F1. The enormous price of the vehicle today has a lot to do with the materials used and costs of production. It isn't something that could be replicated VERY CLOSELY like one can do with a GT40, Cobra, etc. These McLaren kits will always fall short of the real deals, unlike the Cobras or GT40s, and it just ends up being a mockery.
This is the thing that people miss the most, thanks for bringing it up.

The average builder can easily replicate 60's technology in his garage, but not 1990s technology.

I'll reiterate my earlier point about that the typical replica car formula of: a space frame chassis, fiberglass body, and V8 crate engine, will be nowhere near a real F1.
amanichen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2006, 11:06 PM   #22
Noddy
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: anytown
Posts: 272
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

I agree - it's one thing to build a replica that's both faithful to the original and exceeds some of the original technology as in the Factory 5 or Superformance Cobra kits. It's quite another thing to rip the skin off a Pontiac Fiero and make it into a hideously bastardized rendering of a Countach or Testarossa and think you're all that and a bag of chips.
Noddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 12:43 AM   #23
carbuilder2002
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Durham
Posts: 1,209
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Send a message via MSN to carbuilder2002
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

No argument from me on the last 3 comments.
The Mac does however lend it's self to an Aluminium honeycomb chassis with carbon fibre outer body, front and rear sections.
My design was based around such a structure with as mentioned earlier Lotus Esprit suspension steering, AP racing brakes, Gallardo V10 engine, and Xtrac transverse 6 speed transaxle. Custom steering rack.
As also mentioned, windscreen was a stumbling block as was the correct pattern wheels.
The design was 90% sorted when I checked out the legal position after hearing of the case they brought against a comercial kit car company and was advised by a legal representative that they would not hesitate to stamp out any atempt to replicate it even as a one off.
Maybe in another 10 years they may be more lenient but by then I wil be 60 and to old to start what was envisaget as a 7 year project.

But on the whole I would say it was a very difficult car to do simply because the packaging is so compact, Gordon Murray really got the maximum usage of the least amount of space. Was good fun trying to redesign it for more available components though, that alone took me nearly 4 years in my spare time.

carbuilder2002
carbuilder2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 12:45 AM   #24
KevinBotes
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: JHB
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

I have to chuckle at the coments to this post.

I agree with many of the ANTI replica posts that it will never be an f1.
but :
What looks better, the ddr or the mclaren ?
the ddr is now a car in its own right, born of the styling of the mclaren f1.
If i want a ddr i will buy a ddr, but this is not the case. I want a car that "looks like" a mclaren f1. the ddr is close but not quite close enough.

As with most serious replica / recreation builders, the chassis and the mechanicles, brakeing systems etc are all well designed and for the most part designed by serious engineers. For those who wouldn't mind a replica, this is sufficient enough to ensure proper handling and ride comfort and safty. Obviously not the same as an f1, but then even the enzo will differ from the mclaren, as every piece of each car is different. performacne and ride quality are a matter of personal taste. anyone who wants performance and ride of the f1 will have to buy the real car.

for those who have never driven an f1, driving a well made replica will suffice. only the select few who have had the privilage of driving the real thing know what the mclaren feels like.

I don't expect to have a replica that performs like an f1, i don't expect to have a car that feels like an f1. I want a car that looks like the f1. and that is the part that the purist do not understand.

it is more about the look of the car than the performance etc.
__________________
Why ? oh Why ? oh Why?
KevinBotes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 01:03 AM   #25
carbuilder2002
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Durham
Posts: 1,209
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Send a message via MSN to carbuilder2002
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

As long as a replica is as faithful as it can be, it does not disgrace the original and is not uses to try to make people think it's the real thing (not likely with the Mac the engine is a dead give away) then if it gives the builder pleasure then that's whats important.
Enjoying our cars be they a mini or an F1 is what counts.
As long as it's made clear it's a replica then who is it hurting. If it's a dog only the owner/builder.
Wonder what Mclaren did to the Ausie owner who reputedly took molds from his car to build copies for his family?
Mclaren would not even help me with details to build a 1/5th scale model and only 2 owners have offered assistance so long as they are not credited or named for fear of reprisals.

Have fun doing whast you enjoy.
And on your concience be it.

carbuilder2002
carbuilder2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 01:10 AM   #26
Mcl@ren
AF Regular
 
Mcl@ren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: None
Posts: 103
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Why is mclaren so concerned about people copying the look of their car. there are replicas of other newish level cars out there like the diablo ?
Mcl@ren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 09:53 AM   #27
F1 monster
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 1,136
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Possibly to protect the copyright on their packaging patents? I don't really know.
F1 monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2006, 05:19 PM   #28
carbuilder2002
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Durham
Posts: 1,209
Thanks: 0
Thanked 31 Times in 29 Posts
Send a message via MSN to carbuilder2002
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

I have had the pleasure of owning Classic Jaguars, Porshe 911, Ferrari 308, SAston V8 vantage with enlarged engine, Lotus Essex Turbo, Lister Jaguar.
All very fine cars mind the 308 gave me a lot of heartache.
But there is something special about driving something you have built with your own hands and that can more than hold its own with the above mentioned cars.
Lets face it some people like replicas some don't that's what makes the human race interesting our differences.

Me I like both but given £800,000 would certainly seek out an original.
Until then will build my 1/5th model, unless I get itchy fingers and start my own F1 but then it would still cost over £50,000.

Have fun doing what you enjoy guys.

carbuilder2002
carbuilder2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 02:15 AM   #29
Peloton25
McLaren Fanatic
 
Peloton25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: California, USA
Posts: 8,617
Thanks: 692
Thanked 1,755 Times in 734 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Peloton25
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

Figured I'd drag this to the top to share a brief article on the DDR Motorsports car again - mostly so that someone else doesn't start a new thread on it really.

Quote:
The Enzo, Veyron, Carrera GT, Koenigsegg, et al each owe something to the car still considered by many to be the greatest supercar of all time, the McLaren F1. While they occasionally pop up on the used car market or in some of the higher end auctions around the world (the last one went for $1,705,000 at RM in Monterey last month), a McLaren F1's price is a bit steep for most of us. As with other desirable classics throughout the ages, the kit car and aftermarket body panel industry is here to help you out.



In fact, DDR Motorsport will help you get just a little closer to your dream ride for less than 24 grand. Plus a donor Gen II MR2 Turbo. The idea here is that the basic running gear of the '90-'96 MR2 is fairly stout, but the chassis could use some beefing up. So the DDR team of racer Diego Grullón and master craftsman Juan Ovalle teamed up with Trans Am car builder Kerry Hitt of ACP Motorsports, to build a unique chassis that would incorporate the MR2 mechanicals and make it an affordable supercar.

The resulting DDR SP4 will be available in kit form for around $23,700 depending on options. A list of assemblers will also be available soon for those who just want to get in and drive. The finished product should be something like the recently debuted Lotus Europa S - 2200 lbs, 200-260 hp 2.0-liter turbo 4, and awesome handling. And with bodywork that makes it look like a cross between a McLaren and a JGTC racecar, it might just be more of a looker than the Lotus. And if that isn't enough power for you, the next project, the SP8, is going to use a Corvette LS-1 V-8 with as much as twice the power as the SP4 at a promised gain of only 100 pounds. Hope they send one of each over for testing.

More pics and details can be found at the DDR Motorsports website
Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/12/t...t-car-for-24k/

Where's McLaren's legal team when we need them?

>8^)
ER
Peloton25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2006, 01:05 PM   #30
Le Man
AF Enthusiast
 
Le Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 1,422
Thanks: 178
Thanked 143 Times in 89 Posts
Re: FOUND - McLaren F1 Replica!!!!!

This looks interesting?

Looks like someone is doing a better job than DDR!!




Longtail GTR? (Real or replica?)
Le Man is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD


Bookmarks
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > McLaren > F1

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13 PM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts