SR or KA?

[HoboBob]

ohh wait, i think your right on the whp on the ka

[NISSANSPDR]

Yes I am...from 91 til 98 the KA24DE (DOHC) has 155HP...the only years for the 130HP was 88-89 when it was SOHC

[old_s13]

Just a tid bit, I think it comes down to preference. However, its very important to know that its MUCH easier to get power from a motor thats ALREADY turbo than to take an NA motor and turbo it. When you take an NA motor and force feed it, you'de better know a thing or two about motors and forced induction. And this of course, is the REASON KA's are not as popular.. because it does take some education to actually be able to achieve useful performance from a motor that has been converted to forced induction.

There are PLENTY of high-rolling KA motors in the US. The Nasport 240's use KA24E's which have been carbed with high-compression and tons and tons of various other race components, usually producing about 300HP -- but this is strictly race so I hear. There are plenty of DOHC KA's putting over 300.. some putting 450. I've heard of several KA24ET (SOHC) motors putting out very respectable figures as well. And of course, there's a very large amount of SR owners in Japan (and of course out here in the US) that are putting out great amounts of power.

So really, it does come down to preference.

[edspecR]

well i'd rather have an sr cuz of 2 reasons. its jdm and it has more potential. you dont see the ka's used in the jgtc do you? no cuz the sr has a better ...foundation to add hp to. the ka will break down once the hp goes high....well i dont really care much bout the torque cuz the 240 in my opinion is more of a drifter than a dragger...obviously.

[SR20DETpower]

yeah thats true if all you wanted was torque shoulda got a corvette =0

[syka24et]

That's really not a logical response IMO. If that is the case the and all u car about is hp then u should have turbo honda. I think for a street car a turbo ka would be a monster. Hp is important but correct me if I am wrong is not torque what makes your car faster. I think the only way to compare these engines is in turbo trim. Otherwise compare the sr20et non turbo vs the ka, Going by memory the sr20de makes 140?hp, Factory turbocharged with a lower compression 247 in the latest trim, 205-217 in the earlier trims that most people buy (mainly because of they have more potental than the newer ones). A turbo ka with stock compression goes from 140-155 to 225-240 at the wheels on very low boost . Going past to 300 will call for a rebuild on a ka. This is where the srt has a slight advantage because it can take more abuse before a rebulid. Imo if you plan on going for about 400 hp and plan on rebuilding, both engines can do it but the ka will have a torque advantage.

Also as far a being cost effective it depends on the senerio. Say your ka is in bad shape and u are looking for a say 300 hp car the the sr is for u. Say u plan on doing a full rebuild and want to go for 400plus. Consider the cost of the ka; engine build up and turbo kit, engine managment, fuel stuff . You would have to do all this for a sr (stock turbo is too small as is the piping) and another 2000-3000 for the motor. And if anything happends and u blow your motor that is another 2000 vs 200-300 for a new motor. There is no denying the sr20 is a awesome motor but its not so awesome in NA trim. Same thing with the ka not so fabulous in na trim but turbocharged it can be awesome too. Everyone has a preference, I just dont discount the ka because it can and has made hp.

As far as the aftermarket goes the sr has more companies making the same products for it (hks cams or toda etc) but just about anything you need to build up the ka is available off the shelf. Email me if any one is looking for something and can probably provide you with a site or phone number.

[matoumatou]

I voted for the KA because it is what the car now has in it.
Before going to an SR or RB I would want to see what a turbo will do for my 90k Ka24de engine.
If I need more power and can no longer deal with a boost of under 7,
I will then have to rebuild my KA. I can get parts from my local Auto Parts Store and not have to mail away for them.
If that motor blows or I grow tired of it, I would probably skip the sr and go with the RB25det.
An Inline Six is a perfectly balanced Motor!
No need for internal balancing like the 4 banging sr20 or the
non-internally balanced heavy vibrating KA24.
Just my opinion and nothing more.
I am just a newbie with imports.

[uneek_s15]

Hello, like to say I'm new to posting at this forum, but have been reading for a while. This is the most controversial subject for 240's out there. Both engines have their ups and downs. SR rev's higher and smoother, yet the KA has so much more torque. There is also the saying of, "There's no replacement for displacement", which is also true. There was the same argument at the forum from 240sx.org, I'd put the link here, but the sites down for a little bit. It's all comes down to to preference and budget. Do you prefer the smooth high revving, or the nice jerk of high torque. With a high enough budget, both cars can be 10 or less second cars. Just comes down to what you can afford and what you prefer. Also, the comment about why you don't see KA's in jspec races, why would you swap out a perfectly good motor for another good motor? Hope this helps and when the 240sx.org forum comes back up, I'll post a link there, because they state some pretty good things on both KA and SR.

[old_s13]

Originally posted by Holyterror

I think it's safe to say that the SR20 will produce more power with less work.

I think its safe to say both motors are capable of producing excellent power and that both will require a lot of work.


There aren't many high-power examples of the KA24 around. Even in the U.S., the hyped-up SR20DETs greatly outnumber them.

The SR is an old motor that has been used in Japan for quite a long time now -- its NO WONDER there are so many aftermarket products for it. For Japan, the SR is just ANOTHER junky domestic motor that comes a dime a dozen. Look at our domestic motors? You can get parts SO cheap, let alone built crate motors for some of our domestic V6's and V8's. You are right about one thing, SR is sure "hyped-up" bro. Engine importers are making a killing off of idiots who dont know better out here in the US.

Powerful KA's are more rare, thats mostly because most KA owners arent interesting in bragging rights unlike the majority of trendy bandwagon bastards who get their kicks off of saying the two letters "S" "R."


Keep in mind that anything JUN puts on display is bulletproof; you could achieve these numbers with less work, sacrificing stability (not to mention engine life).

I am not gonna knock JUN, they are a high-end tuning company. However, its silly to say anything high-performance is bullet-proof. There is a reason race wheels, race motors, and race suspension dont come factory on street vehicles. Most extreme race motors need more maintanance and have a more expensive upkeep. The more you push the envelop towards owning a race car, the less streetable it becomes. It may be able to take a flogging at the track, but it sure will require a lot of upkeep.


You can get a KA24 crank into the SR20 with less work than you might think, and turn it into an SR24.

Who told you the KA crank can be modified to fit an SR?


In a block-to-block comparison, it's still hard to say which is better. The KA24 is iron, which is inherently stronger. However, the SR20's block is so thick that the materials don't make much of a difference. The SR20 wins with oil squirters, the KA24 possibly has better coolant passages, and so on...

Incorrect. The KA24DE has oil squirters.


But the SR20 will rev higher, and inevitably, produce more power with that wicked racing cam you've undoubtedly put on it already. Case closed.

RPMs are not as important as powerband. The most important thing about a motor is being able to create good power in a useable powerband. Depending on the type of racing you do, SR and KA can both have potential.

- Mike

[mellowboy]

old_s13 - good shit!



OK i know sr20s are "hyped" but what about peeps with them nissan sentras/200sx? My friend has a ga motor in it and its pretty damn weak. I know hotshot makes turbo kits for it but is it worth it?? So we all ended up tellin him to get a sr20de and turbo that or sr20det. As for the 240sx...i dont really think its necessary to swap in an sr20det motor.

[Dorikin]

Originally posted by old_s13

I think it's safe to say that the SR20 will produce more power with less work.

I think its safe to say both motors are capable of producing excellent power and that both will require a lot of work.


There aren't many high-power examples of the KA24 around. Even in the U.S., the hyped-up SR20DETs greatly outnumber them.

The SR is an old motor that has been used in Japan for quite a long time now -- its NO WONDER there are so many aftermarket products for it. For Japan, the SR is just ANOTHER junky domestic motor that comes a dime a dozen. Look at our domestic motors? You can get parts SO cheap, let alone built crate motors for some of our domestic V6's and V8's. You are right about one thing, SR is sure "hyped-up" bro. Engine importers are making a killing off of idiots who dont know better out here in the US.

Powerful KA's are more rare, thats mostly because most KA owners arent interesting in bragging rights unlike the majority of trendy bandwagon bastards who get their kicks off of saying the two letters "S" "R."


Keep in mind that anything JUN puts on display is bulletproof; you could achieve these numbers with less work, sacrificing stability (not to mention engine life).

I am not gonna knock JUN, they are a high-end tuning company. However, its silly to say anything high-performance is bullet-proof. There is a reason race wheels, race motors, and race suspension dont come factory on street vehicles. Most extreme race motors need more maintanance and have a more expensive upkeep. The more you push the envelop towards owning a race car, the less streetable it becomes. It may be able to take a flogging at the track, but it sure will require a lot of upkeep.


You can get a KA24 crank into the SR20 with less work than you might think, and turn it into an SR24.

Who told you the KA crank can be modified to fit an SR?


In a block-to-block comparison, it's still hard to say which is better. The KA24 is iron, which is inherently stronger. However, the SR20's block is so thick that the materials don't make much of a difference. The SR20 wins with oil squirters, the KA24 possibly has better coolant passages, and so on...

Incorrect. The KA24DE has oil squirters.


But the SR20 will rev higher, and inevitably, produce more power with that wicked racing cam you've undoubtedly put on it already. Case closed.

RPMs are not as important as powerband. The most important thing about a motor is being able to create good power in a useable powerband. Depending on the type of racing you do, SR and KA can both have potential.

- Mike

Word, look at the Honda S2000...it revs to 9000 rpm and its F20C engine is a torqueless dick. Still a fun car

[Holyterror]

So the moral of the story is... I'm not allowed to exaggerate or make generalizations, and if I do, I'll never hear the end of it.

One of the major things that I didn't mention before was the fact that the SR20 is a square design. Bore and stroke are both 86mm, as opposed to the significantly under-square KA24's 89mm bore and 96mm stroke. The tenedency of turbo KA24s to break con rods needs no further explanation. Nor does the substantially lower redline (although it is also a function of displacement/no. of cylinders).

I don't care what anybody says, I think that the SR20 is more popular because of the vast amount of literature and aftermarket parts already out there. Sure, stock KA24 parts are all over the place, but performance parts are a different story. Thanks to companies like Stillen and Jim Wolf Tech, there are some good parts out there, but internals are still limited to top end. Face it; not everyone who bought the SR20DET is a poseur. There are compelling reasons for it.

All in all, I'd probably stick with the KA24 for my needs. If I was going to swap, it'd be for another CA18DET.

And to answer mellowboy's questions about the GA16DE... it's a decent motor, and remember that it's always cheaper to turbocharge the engine you have rather than buying a new one. Hotshot makes a turbo kit designed for the 200SX, but it's supposed to fit the Sentra as well. I'd give it a look. It is very complete - includes manifold, injectors, intercooler, ECU, and even boost and oil pressure gauges! Of course, it also costs ~$3700, so you pretty much do the SR20 swap...

[old_s13]

From what I hear, the FWD NA SR20DE is *not* the same as the SR20DET. Besides the turbo, I've read that the SR20DE does not have oil squirters. I am sure there are plenty of other things it may not have which would make it a weaker candidate. Its very similar to the comparison between the Mexican KA24E (made for the NISSAN truck) and the Japanese KA24E made for the S13 -- they are quite different internally.

If you're going to build your motor, talk to a shop that builds engines.

Originally posted by mellowboy
old_s13 - good shit!



OK i know sr20s are "hyped" but what about peeps with them nissan sentras/200sx? My friend has a ga motor in it and its pretty damn weak. I know hotshot makes turbo kits for it but is it worth it?? So we all ended up tellin him to get a sr20de and turbo that or sr20det. As for the 240sx...i dont really think its necessary to swap in an sr20det motor.

[180driftking]

Originally posted by old_s13
..... and the Japanese KA24E made for the S13 -- they are quite different internally.

just to let you know, japanese silvia s13's come with ca18de, or ca18det engines, i dont know where your getting the ka24e.. maybe you could explain that or maybe you just referr it as that.

[old_s13]

So the moral of the story is... I'm not allowed to exaggerate or make generalizations, and if I do, I'll never hear the end of it.

No, the moral of the story is that if you make statements and share information on a public forum, there ARE people here who read what you write and may occasionally contradict, agree, or correct you. I know everything I say is not always right, I am no one special.


One of the major things that I didn't mention before was the fact that the SR20 is a square design. Bore and stroke are both 86mm, as opposed to the significantly under-square KA24's 89mm bore and 96mm stroke. The tenedency of turbo KA24s to break con rods needs no further explanation. Nor does the substantially lower redline (although it is also a function of displacement/no. of cylinders).

I am not an engine builder, I am not going to argue about the differences between the internals of the two engines. But, there are reputable companies like Rebello who've been working on Datsun/NISSAN motors for ages and their motors are proven at races. I dont know why you say KA24's easily break connecting rods, I know several turbo KA owners who havent broken any yet. Two of them drove CROSS COUNTRY three years ago to the national 240SX convention in Kansas City! Many of them flog their cars at the track and their cars are still reliable.

Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe people are not turboing, installing, OR tuning their cars right? An engine is quite complex, the last thing I would do is buy parts and just "install" them. People need to learn and research more before they just do things like install mods or crank up boost.


I don't care what anybody says, I think that the SR20 is more popular because of the vast amount of literature and aftermarket parts already out there. Sure, stock KA24 parts are all over the place, but performance parts are a different story.

If the SR is common in Japan, its no wonder that there is support to back it up -- I already said this. In due time, I am sure the KA will gain more support in the US. Besides, just incase you didnt know the 240SX *just* got popular. Where were you 14 years ago? Did you have love for this car then, or did you recently read about them and get a hard on like most newschoolers? Hopefully you didnt hop on the bandwagon.


there are some good parts out there, but internals are still limited to top end. Face it; not everyone who bought the SR20DET is a poseur. There are compelling reasons for it.

There is NO DOUBT that the SR20DET is a good motor, no doubt at all. You wont hear me talking bad about it. Just remember, its always easier to upgrade a turbo motor than it is to take an NA motor, turbo it, and also upgrade it. You have to make sure you've done the necessary work for that motor to be able to handle that type of power. Whether its internal upgrades, balancing, strengthening, whatever you have to do -- it HAS to be done. Otherwise, kabooom.

I dont understand what you mean by "internals are limited to top end" though.


All in all, I'd probably stick with the KA24 for my needs. If I was going to swap, it'd be for another CA18DET.

I like how people always bring up OLD motors, like the CA or the RB20, as if they are mysterious legends. These motors were designed in the `80s. Anyone who buys one of these motors will need to do some serious cleanup.. atleast I would.

If people are so crazed about doing "swaps" -- why not throw in a 3-rotor motor.. show people you're fucking INSANE. Besides, those are some of the best motors ever made.