blue smoke at morning startup

[howru]

My 2000 camry 4 cyl has blue smoke for 3-5 seconds at the first startup in the morning, and then the smoke disappears. It has only 59k on it. I searched sites and it seems caused by "valve stem seals" leaking. Please help me with these questions:
1. How serious is this problem? How long will it be before I run into big problems?
2.What will be the reasonable price to fix it? Can I do it by myself?
3. Can I try some engine cleaner to tackle this problem?

Thank you.

[don24mac]

First, a few questions. How often do you change the oil on this vehicle? How is it driven? Mostly around town? Town and Highway driving? Almost all highway? Does it get warmed up most of the time when you drive it, or is it taken for mostly short trips?

I ask those questions because 59,000 miles is a little soon to be having valve seal problems. There is a rare issue with 97's to 01's where sludge could be clogging things up in the top of the engine area. And, that can initially cause such a symptom. But, your answers to the above questions can help determine the cause.

BTW, removing the valve cover and looking in this area will show if there is a sludge problem. Be sure to have a new valve cover gasket before doing this. If it is a sludge problem, dealing with that problem will likely clear up the leaking valve seal problem.

[howru]

Thank you for your reply. I bought this car in August 2004 and before that it was owned by a gettleman who drove it mostly on highway for a year and changed oil every 3k. Before him, it was owned by a government department, and the maintenance record is unknown.

Can I just look into the oil cap hole to dertermine the sludge problem? Last time when I change the oil, I remember the oil was very clean.

[don24mac]

Probably not sludge then. There's a baffle in the oil filler hole that makes it difficult to tell if there's sludge in there, but you can try looking. Best way to check is to remove the valve cover.

As far as the cost of replacing the valve seals, I'm not sure because I've never had to do it. Maybe someone else can comment on that.

If it's just the seals, then it's not too serious. It can be driven quite a while, without damage. But, over time it will get worse. Do you have to add much oil between changes?

Engine cleaner (detergent) in the oil can help. But, I'd still check for sludge before I did it just to be sure. Putting detergent in the oil of one of these engines that happens to have sludge will clean some of the sludge out, but may leave clumps floating around that can clog passageways resulting in damage.

[Bmaintz]

Don't overlook your injectors leaking down overnight.... My '94 Camry blows blue smoke but not everytime... I use Amsoil PI when my tank gets down to 8 gals or less & run the mix to empty... Cleans the injectors & values up... Bob

[howru]

don24mac, Thank you for the information. Isn't the slude problem exclusively a 1MZ problem? My car is a 5S-FE.

[howru]

Bmaintz, thank you so much. I will try Amsoil PI and let you know the result.

[don24mac]

Originally Posted by howru

Isn't the slude problem exclusively a 1MZ problem? My car is a 5S-FE.

No, it covers most four and six cylinder Toyota engines from 96 through 01 or 02. (depending on model)

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...ota-sludge.htm

A fuel system cleaner, as suggested above could also help if, as mentioned, the injectors are leaking. That's a good idea to try, too.

[howru]

Thank you again, don24mac. Do you think Auto Rx would also deserve a try?

[don24mac]

Yes Auto-RX is probably OK. It's certainly a good product. I have a slight concern only because I've read in a few places where some, who did have a serious sludge problem tried an engine cleaner, and, as mentioned above, as the sludge was being cleaned, some came off in chunks and clogged oil passageways and caused serious damage. This is probably only a very small possibility, but worth mentioning. It could work very well.

Oil change intervals seems to be the indicator of excessive sludge buildup in these engines. Since you change yours regularly, and so did the previous owner, it's probably not a problem.

[Bmaintz]

I agree with the sludge problem, pop off the valve cover & take a peak..... An engine cleaner or even synthetic oil can do a fast clen-up & dislodge chunks that will clog your oil filter & small passages.... Amsoil also makes a good engine cleaner that I have used several times when converting from dino oil to synthetic.... Synthetic oil should also stop or slow down the sludge problem.... You can email me if you like to know how to get the Amsoil..... Bob

[howru]

I am having it checked by dealer. This car is still in the 5 years/60,000miles warranty. I will update the progress. Thank you everybody.

[howru]

Today the dealer said the blue smoke is caused by valve stem seal leaking. However, in the phone message, they recommend to change the timing belt (1 hour labor, $85 per hour) and to do the 60k maintenance.
I know the maintenance guide asked me to change the timing belt at 90k. Do you think the repairment of the valve stem seal would make the replacement of the timing belt necessary? Or I can just tell them I would like to do it at 90K?
Regarding the 60K maintenance, I just did it by myself (flush coolant, replace spark plugs, replace ATF and differential oil, etc.) So I don't think I need it.
If I don't accept anything they recommended, will I offend the dealer? I will feel sorry if I just let them repair the seal and give them no money. Will they be angry about this? Will they get me some trouble therefore ( Ask for maintenance record, which I don't have, and therefore void my warranty)?
I am not that rich, I am a student. Please help, thank you.

[ProMan]

Just say no to them firmly. You don't need new timing belt, it's just they need your money. Don't worry about anything else, this problem has nothing to do with maintenance. Look into your owner's manual, can you find any regular maintenance item says replace valve seals? They won't dare to ask for maintenance records.

Don't worry about the money, the techs will get paid by Toyota for warranty work. Keep in mind, you are the boss, not them.

Tell them you are only interested in seeing them fix the problem now, and you will come back if they do this job right and your car is happy. This works well for me when I brought my car into the dealer for warranty work. They always push very very hard to squeeze big $$$ out of my pocket. But I know what I was there for. I just insisted that they do what I want and don't worry about other stuff.

My 88 Camry has 185K on it, and the timing belt is still the original one. I check the condition of the belt every 10000 miles and it's in good condition everytime, so I just let it continue performing it's duty.

[don24mac]

I agree with ProMan. Just have them do the valve seals under warranty. That's all that's necessary, and to suggest doing the timing belt 30k miles early would waste your money. Out of curiosity, is this the only Toyota dealer near you? If it's not, next time you need service you could try another one. Maybe you can tell I don't like dealers that suggest service that's not necessary. For the other 60k service items, they likely just didn't know you'd already done them.

When the timing belt is done at 90k you would also have them replace the accessory belts, too. Total cost for parts and labor should be just under, or around $200. I just had it done on my 2000 camry at 90k miles.

Thanks for your update.