help - Luxury w/ preformance for under $30,000

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

3 series are a dime a dozen.

With good reason

[VAD0R]

If you don't care about fuel economy, as in really don't care, you can get an RX-8 for as low as $20k. It may not have the acceleration of the G35 but it makes up for it in handling and its interior can rival the Infiniti as well. Also, rotary engines actually improve in performance as you add mileage.

[-Hank-]

Ill check out the rx8...
Dont think I can get the gto, has to be an auto, and with the auto's it bumps the fuel economy down just enuf to where I would have to pay a gas guzzeler tax on it which makes it too expensive.

also for the bmw's what are the 1/4mi times with them, I never know where to look online to find 1/4mi times and stuff for specific cars.

[DinanM3_S2]

E46 330i Performance Package: 235hp 1/4 mile in 14.3 seconds (C&D)

E46 330i Sport: 225hp 1/4 mile in 14.8 seconds (C&D)

Those are both 1/4 mile times in sedans w/ manual transmissions. The coupes should be a little faster, the automatics should be a little slower.

[thrasher]

Don't forget that with a BMW comes much more expensive maintenance and insurance costs. I wouldn't but a 3 series unless it was an M, they are overpriced and underpowered compared to the competition, especially the G35. Infiniti has the best service in the biz, and they are built much better than bimmers.

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by thrasher

Don't forget that with a BMW comes much more expensive maintenance and insurance costs. I wouldn't but a 3 series unless it was an M, they are overpriced and underpowered compared to the competition, especially the G35. Infiniti has the best service in the biz, and they are built much better than bimmers.

I would really like to see a third party source say that BMW maintenance and insurance is highter, or that Infiniti has the best service, or that they are better built.

I've done a little research, and JD Powers said the quality of the 3-series is above that of the G35. The Kelly Blue Book resale value on BMWs is still better then Infiniti, Lexus, Benz, or anyone else in the class. KBB also ranked the BMW 3-series 5 of 5 in mechanical quality, the G35 got 4 of 5 in mech. quality. Yes, as a whole, BMW's reliability is not where it should be, but upon further inspection, most of the recent reliability problems stem from the 5 and 7-series and IDrive, not the 3-series. What I've found as far as service goes is it all depends on the dealership, not the parent company. I've been to good BMW dealerships and I've been to bad ones. Its no different with any maker.

http://consumercenter.jdpower.com/cc...ist=JDPlistSub

www.kbb.com

Prove me wrong please

[VAD0R]

Originally Posted by -Hank-

Ill check out the rx8...
Dont think I can get the gto, has to be an auto, and with the auto's it bumps the fuel economy down just enuf to where I would have to pay a gas guzzeler tax on it which makes it too expensive.

also for the bmw's what are the 1/4mi times with them, I never know where to look online to find 1/4mi times and stuff for specific cars.

If your criteria is for only for an automatic, than in that case the RX-8 would probably be a disapointment since it has 197hp and 167 torque, since the amount you rev your rotary is plays a huge role on how much hp plus torque you get. The sports suspention also comes standard in the manual models.

If you want something with a good automatic tranny you should consider some sports sedans such as the Infiniti G35x, Legacy GT and even the 3.0l Jaguar X-Type. Those all have 5 speed automatics with sports shift.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

I would really like to see a third party source say that BMW maintenance and insurance is highter, or that Infiniti has the best service, or that they are better built.

I've done a little research, and JD Powers said the quality of the 3-series is above that of the G35. The Kelly Blue Book resale value on BMWs is still better then Infiniti, Lexus, Benz, or anyone else in the class. KBB also ranked the BMW 3-series 5 of 5 in mechanical quality, the G35 got 4 of 5 in mech. quality. Yes, as a whole, BMW's reliability is not where it should be, but upon further inspection, most of the recent reliability problems stem from the 5 and 7-series and IDrive, not the 3-series. What I've found as far as service goes is it all depends on the dealership, not the parent company. I've been to good BMW dealerships and I've been to bad ones. Its no different with any maker.

http://consumercenter.jdpower.com/cc...ist=JDPlistSub

www.kbb.com

Prove me wrong please

Woops, my bad, Infinit got edged out in the most recent survey by 3 points (out of 1000), sorry. But not by BMW, not a chance.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/ne...-d-powers/169/

Here's another one, you can see Infiniti very near the top (has slipped a little) and BMW just barely above average.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases...asp?ID=2005092

Better built? Sure, not a problem. Infiniti stomps BMW with almost 50 less problems per 100 vehicles built.

http://www.cartest.ca/2005_most_reliable_vehicles.html

Maintenance costs? Well, I couldn't find any numbers, it turns out those aren't really kept track of in a standardized manner as are reliability, service, etc, but if you really want to argue that BMW's are as cheap to maintain as Infiniti's, there not much I can say to you. You should know this already though, just compare the price of the extremely expensive 10w60 motor oil that your M3 REQUIRES to any other synthetic. I don't see why you're so opposed to Infiniti building a more quality vehicle with better service. BMW does not have better resale due to better quality, it's based on strong demand for their vehicles.

[VAD0R]

And Kia is ranked one of the highest in customer satisfaction and service, your point is?

Also, the Subaru Legacy is more ranked higher in reliability than the BMW and Infiniti, but low in customer service which is mostly due to part costs because of their smaller shipping volumes.

[thrasher]

Do you see a Kia anywhere in this comparison? We are discussing the merits of the 3 series vs. the G35. so where in the hell do Kia or Subaru enter into this? Go wase your worthless posts elsewhere.

[DinanM3_S2]

Exactly, the G35 vs. the 3-series, not Infiniti vs. BMW. BMW's reliability issues rarely have to do with the 3-series. BMW's biggest problem cars are the X5, pre-facelift 7-series and the 5-series, not the 3. Look for 3-series specific information, like the link I sent earlier, not necessarily company vs company, but car vs car.

Plus, BMW covers all maintenence under warranty, correct me if I'm wrong, but Infiniti doesn't do that. So everything from oil to breakpads to windshield wipers can be replaced for free for the first four years / 50,000 miles.

I also have problems with that customer service ratings chart. There is no way Lincoln, Saturn, Cadi, and Pontiac are better dealers then Toyota, Nissan, and Honda.

Your 3rd link didn't work.

Comparing company against company is one thing, comparing car against car (which we are doing) can be a very different thing.

[VAD0R]

Originally Posted by thrasher

Do you see a Kia anywhere in this comparison? We are discussing the merits of the 3 series vs. the G35. so where in the hell do Kia or Subaru enter into this? Go wase your worthless posts elsewhere.

I was just stating if customer service is the biggest issue when purchasing a plush performance car. And yes it is, but not still not as important as a number of other factor that contribute to the satisfacation once you get the car and not taking it to a dealer.

As for Subaru= a waste of time. Perhaps you should as well as Hank should check out the specs, interior packages and most importantly the pricing of the Legacy GT. And then you might arrive to the conclusion that aside from the upcoming Mazdaspeed6, this car has a great bang for the buck, nice interior which just borders on Lexus quality as well as great reliability. Some just have to get over the Camryesque exterior. The topic author stated in the title a performance oriented luxury car for under $30k, and I don't think he meant used.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

Exactly, the G35 vs. the 3-series, not Infiniti vs. BMW. BMW's reliability issues rarely have to do with the 3-series. BMW's biggest problem cars are the X5, pre-facelift 7-series and the 5-series, not the 3. Look for 3-series specific information, like the link I sent earlier, not necessarily company vs company, but car vs car.

Plus, BMW covers all maintenence under warranty, correct me if I'm wrong, but Infiniti doesn't do that. So everything from oil to breakpads to windshield wipers can be replaced for free for the first four years / 50,000 miles.

I also have problems with that customer service ratings chart. There is no way Lincoln, Saturn, Cadi, and Pontiac are better dealers then Toyota, Nissan, and Honda.

Your 3rd link didn't work.

Comparing company against company is one thing, comparing car against car (which we are doing) can be a very different thing.

Well, you asked me to provide 3rd party verification and I did, if you don't have faith in JDPower rankings, there's not much else I can do to convince you.

Sure, BMW has free maintenance for the first 4 years, but let's look at why that is. Their parts ARE more expensive, no doubt about it...their maintenance program was launched to boost sales exactly b/c people are turned away by high cost of ownership. Free maintenance = lower cost of ownership = less buyers scared off by pricey maintenance. Now we're talking about used vehicles here that will likely run out of that maintenance period, and then you're stuck with higher maintenance costs AND poorer service (I'm sticking with the JDPower and personal experience, every Infiniti dealer we've been to has been phenomenal, whereas service on my Maxima has been less than stellar in comparison)

FYI, I love BMW's and am currently in the market for an E46 M3, so there's not much bias here...

[kman10587]

I also have problems with that customer service ratings chart. There is no way Lincoln, Saturn, Cadi, and Pontiac are better dealers then Toyota, Nissan, and Honda.

You would be very surprised. While Toyota, Honda, and Nissan and clearly ahead of Lincoln, Saturn, and Cadillac right now, the American brands are making a strong push, especially in the customer service and dealership treatment department. Around here, at least, the Toyota and Nissan dealerships are full of complete pricks (they're nearly as bad as BMW, for god sakes).