Pick between Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, the upcoming Daewoo Shiraz...

[Polygon]

Mercedes or BMW. Lexus is not a car company I like.

[JBL85]

I would never call a Toyota crap

We have 3 of them and everyone in our family has one, this are the most reliable cars we have owned.

Our T100 has 150k and still going strong and even pulls a 6000lb boat
Tundra is the nicest, smoothest, quietest truck we have ever driven.
Rx300 is reliable has hell, never one engine problem.

thats only 3 cars but everyone else we know with one loves em'

I mean boycott them all you want....but its not going to prove a point to them. =)

[Euro19]

I know is kinda weird comparing all this goodies to a car we don´t even know much. Anywise you can visit the Daewoo forum to fin some of its proyects, concept cars, etc, etc. You´ll be surprised. :frog:

[JBL85]

or not.....!

[moe182]

ok i assume we're comparing the BMW 740i, the Benz S430, the Lexus LS430, Infiniti Q45 and the Daewoo Shiraz (the wha?).
In the end, I would prob pick the S430. The LS 430 is just all lux and not too fun to drive, its like cloud, completly disconnected from the road. And the stock wheels look like hub caps. And for the money i wouldnt mind something that looks a little better. The BMW is well going to be replaced this year, so it prob shouldnt even be in this comparison. The Q45 would be my second pick, it packs so many goodies at such a cheap price. Voice rec, backin' up camera, 340 horses, good looks, and one AMAZING interior. The benz has the best ride/suspension of them all. It grabs the road, but is also quite smooth. It also is the only one with an Air ride suspension (which the new BMW is going to have as an option) which is performs quite amazingly. Also you get the same looks as some guy rolling around in S600....and i just think its the best lookin of the bunch. And the Daewoo, well.........its a Daewoo. I dont know anything about it, and i dont really think i like what ive seen so far.

I also dont like Lexus very much as a whole....mostly because of there prices. They make a good product, but i mean when you get to the higher price ranges (like the SC430 and the LS430) they just become huge rip off's of the Germans. And on top of that they're the same prices as the germans.....huh? To me they're just worse clones as BMW, and Benz....but they're charging as much. I mean i do like alot of they're cars.....the IS300, and the GS 430. But in the end when you sit in a lexus, it still feels too much like a Toyota.

[Polygon]

Also I really don't like Daewoo. The used to make small T.V.s and stereos, and shitty ones at that. It was like when Panasonic made bikes they were shitty too. I don't feel that Daewoo is a good quality car.

[Euro19]

Yeah, maybe the Lexus still feels like a Toyota anywise, but people buy them more than BMW, Mercedes and Audi all together in the States!

About the Daewoo, it´s not really like Samsung did for example; cause they made and still make artefacts like microwaves, TV etc etc and some day they occured to them to launch only one car called the SQ5 that was nothing more than a 199(7) Nissan Maxima with a different front-end and some thousands less. Anywise the company failled in the car market. Well I don´t know what else Samsung does but Daewoo Motor is just a tiny part of what the company really is;
Corporate Restructuring
Finance
International Finance and
Overseas Management
Office of Auditing
ice of Legal Affairs Steel
Metal
Chemical
Automotive and Component
Machinery and Plant
Media and Electronics
Textiles
Commodity and Energy

[JBL85]

My toyota drives EXACTLY like my lexus and I love my toyota, its got more power then any mercedes SUV and its WAY SMOOOOTHER...so if my Lexus is driving like a Toyota, I have 0 Flippin complaints =)

[moe182]

Im not talkin about the whole Lexus line.....just the the SC 430 and LS430..... I like the the IS300, its a good car, but the edge it has over the BMW is its price. Same with the GS's...THATS why i like those two.
But when you get to the SC's and the LS....to me, its a waste of cash. LS = Rip of last generation S Class Mercedes....
SC = Rip of current (4th) generation SL Mercedes

[Euro19]

Originally posted by JBL85
My toyota drives EXACTLY like my lexus and I love my toyota, its got more power then any mercedes SUV and its WAY SMOOOOTHER...so if my Lexus is driving like a Toyota, I have 0 Flippin complaints =)

Well that´s because actually Lexus is Toyota Is just that in America they sell them in separate brands, as you would know in Japan all Lexus have the Toyota badge, so there shouldn´t be surprises about similarities, duh, just that Lexus should be better because is more luxury oriented, but Toyota is allready exellent so it seems there´s not need to improve it in that aspect, right?
And by the way I like too the Lexus GS and Jaguar S-type better than their rivals at BMW, MB, Lincoln LS, or anything. Anywise this comparo, is between the top top from the the mentioned brands, like someone assumed.

[JBL85]

LOL thats the point I was trying to get out, they are such good damn cars, plenty of power and comfort. The RX300 can beat the 5.9 Liter v8 dodge durango. I havent really had any mercedes racing or anyting, but my Nissan Maxima has beat 328I's, E320's and plenty of other 6 cylinder's =). Only bad thing is the lexus gs300 is slow and doesnt compete with the high end 3 series very well.

[Euro19]

Originally posted by JBL85
LOL thats the point I was trying to get out, they are such good damn cars, plenty of power and comfort. The RX300 can beat the 5.9 Liter v8 dodge durango. I havent really had any mercedes racing or anyting, but my Nissan Maxima has beat 328I's, E320's and plenty of other 6 cylinder's =). Only bad thing is the lexus gs300 is slow and doesnt compete with the high end 3 series very well.

That´s because the V6 of the Maxima is considered one of the ten best engines, well I don´t know now, this was from around 1997-

[JBL85]

best engine is from like 94-2001 i dont know about the new engine

[confusious]

Daewoo is cr@p

its all about the infiniti q45 this year there will be a new option available for the q45, its a new 400 hp engine.

Heres some info i have found about infiniti and the q45

On location in Miami, Florida

So we get off the plane in Miami feeling like Batman must've felt before test-driving his Batmobile. We knew we were on a special mission when we "had" to go down there to test drive Infiniti's new 2002 Q45.

Not only was Miami's air humid, but redemption was in it. You see, back in 1991 Infiniti's flagship Q45 was ahead of its time. A DOHC alloy V-8 breathing through 32 valves and displacing 4.5 liters with 278 bhp on tap, the car was about serious performance. When you threw in amazing build quality and a plethora of features, there were a few out there who knew how special this car was ...yet the mainstream luxury market for perhaps hundreds of reasons chose the Lexus LS400.

As the 90s progressed, Infiniti made the Q45 into a softer and gentler car by adding wood trim, a more conservative front grille, and lots of exterior chrome trim. By then, Infiniti had lost itself and, on top of everything, sales didn't touch the LS400.

Still without any collective insight, Infiniti decided throw away the sporty image of the Q45 and released a redesigned 1997 Q45. It was more conservative in nature and resembled more American luxury car than any foreign prestige brand. Besides that, it now had a weaker 4.1 liter engine, less brand equity, and the door handles, radio, and buttons were sourced from the Nissan parts bin. For enthusiasts, there were no reasons left to drive a Q, except that no one else had one.

To keep up with luxury car trends, Infiniti eventually added some features to the 99-01 Qs -- Xenon HID lights, the analog clock made it's way back, and electronically controlled suspension. Minimalists offerings but nothing breakthrough.

We can only imagine everyone who was responsible must've been a little peeved and embarrassed. Not only did Infiniti sell its soul with the Q45, but all it got in exchange were lessons that came with a price tag that didn't make any sense. It wasn't anyone's fault in particular, but that was part of the problem. In the end, everyone sort of just scratched their heads at the lackluster results, went home for dinner and came to work the next day.

But the reality was Infiniti was bleeding at the gut. From an entrepreneurial standpoint there was no reason to even stay in business. The Xterra alone was many times more profitable than the entire Infiniti line.

Desperation eventually ushered in new voices, thus a new breath of life at Infiniti. Baby boomer managers had to juice up their ambition and imaginations to grasp new and developing trends in the automotive luxury market. There would be no more attempting to follow the perceived industry leader, Lexus. Infiniti needed to pave it’s own road to success.

In the end, there are two main Unique Selling Points of the new Q45:

The 2002 Q45 may very well be the beginning of that departure. With 340 horses underneath the hood, Infiniti raises the bar on power in the premium luxury market. The LS430 has 290, which is 50 less horses in the stable. Ouch.

Then there's the gorgeous interior with the 6-inch LCD monitor (7-inches for those who opt for the navigation system) For the first time, the interior of an Infiniti surpasses Lexus. Highlighting the list is standard speech recognition - allowing hands free control of the audio, climate control, and navigation systems. Then add an array of amenities with some of the finest leather seats we've sat on. All this make the cabin quite the cocoon for any who needs time to think. Powerful stuff, indeed. We'll take it personally if Infiniti doesn't show off this interior in their TV ad spots.
Performance
As we mentioned earlier, the first gen Q45s were performance oriented -- though both the first and second gen sported the V-8 VH series engines. The first generation enjoyed the benefits of a muscular 4.5 liter VH45DE engine. The second generation was demoted to a 4.1 liter VH41DE. Mind you regardless of year, the VH engines were smooth and torquey. But for a totally new car, you need a totally new engine.

Witness Nissan's new 4.5 liter V-8 VK45DE. Similar in design to Nissan's much vaulted V-6 VQ series engines, the VK45DE is all aluminum alloy with DOHC and 32 valves. This engine allows features variable length air induction system, continuously variable valve timing control system, titanium valves, modular cylinder heads, microfinished crankshaft, lightweight pistons, super-silent single stage cam drive chain and a hydraulically driven cooling fan (powered by the steering system - allowing for low noise and power loss). All of this technology and craftsmanship is good for a velvety smooth 340 bhp @ 6,400 rpm and 333 ft-lbs of torque @ 4,000 rpm.

Our editors have driven the likes of the Lexus GS400, BMW 540i, and Mercedes E430 Sport. The Merc and even the GS400 doesn't hold a dime to the new Q. The new Q excels in back country roads, especially in sport trim with 18" wheels/tires and active damping suspension. The 540i only when optioned with the Sport Suspension fares well against the Q. However then the 540’s ride tends to suffer on bad roads whereas Infiniti has done a great job of balancing ride comfort and handling.

The smooth shifting 5 speed automatic (another first for Infiniti) works in tandem with the V-8 to produce seamless and quiet acceleration so that you forget how fast you're going until you look at the speedometer. Our editors enjoyed the flexibility of the manual-shifting mode but missed the instantaneous action offered by a true manual transmission. Still the manumatic mode held gears until near red line and could shave off a few seconds on a road course track.

True to its flagship high tech totem pole status, the Q gets vehicle dynamics control (a sophisticated form of traction control) paired up with limited slip differential so you can toss it around corners. Even then the Q’s suspension is amazingly supple and soaks up bumps and ruts in the highways.

Braking performance is on par with it's competitors boasting large four wheel vented discs, ABS (of course), electronic brake distribution (EBD), and mechanical/electronic braking assist. The latter senses when the driver is attempting to brake quickly and helps to apply more braking force.

Design
When we first saw the new Q introduced last year, we were pleasantly surprised. The new Q had an aggressive stance especially with it's prominent Infiniti logo on the front grille. We admire the lines of its beefy beltline. We notice a hint of the new S class in the profile.

The rear also grew on us and we came to appreciate it when driving behind another 2002 Q45 on the highway.

Exterior
It has been hinted by some Infiniti insiders that a certain famous European design studio had an early role in the design of the new Q, but those rumors have not been substantiated and remain just that. No one can deny, however, that the new Q isn't a knockout. Officially, the lead designer was Mamoru Aoki who designed the last generation 300ZX, a timeless classic. Kudos we say to whoever dreamt up the machine-gun xenon HID headlights - which we must say, are pretty damn cool.
Interior
The car has a large center pod where the air conditioning, radio, and (in certain trims) the navigation system are integrated with a large LCD display. The buttons look of high quality plastic and have a nice tactile feel. The system operates with a cursor based buttons (like a the cursor buttons on a DVD player), thus it's not touch screen based - which we think is great considering all the oily finger prints normally associated with one. It may need a bit of time to adjust to - but we think it has an acceptable level of intuitiveness that we were able operate all the features within a few hours.

As soon as we sat in the driver's seat, we realized how gorgeous the electro-illuminescent gauges were. Sharp and clear with very little wash out even in the bright Florida sun. The rest of the interior is attractive with high quality leather, soft touch plastics and cloth-covered pillars lending a European touch. We preferred the lighter interiors to the black interior.

The Q comes with standard features such as dual zone climate control, wood trim (especially gorgeous in the bird's eye maple), one touch automatic windows (up and down), one touch sunroof, two position memory seats, retained power to close windows after taking the key out, tilting and telescoping power steering column, electronic key with remote entry, and auto dimming rear view mirror. Forgive us if we've left anything out as the Q enjoys a full list of gadgetry making it tough for mere mortals to keep track of.

The standard voice recognition system worked well when asked to turn off the climate control, to raise or lower the temperature, and to change radio stations. We’d like to spend a bit more time with the system to see how often we normally use it after the “neat feature” phase passes.

Optional are the DVD navigation system and active damping sport suspension
(not quite as sophisticated or costly to fix as the first gen Q45a). There's also a premium package, which includes reclining rear seats with audio and heating controls, power rear sun shade, plus the navigation and sport suspension thrown in. And the coolest feature of this package is the tail-mounted camera, which automatically activates when the transmission is shifted in reverse.

Annoyances
Power window buttons are buried below the door handles. The sunglass holder looks down market with hard plastic and unfinished edges

The ceiling grab handles are the old-school carrying case style and not the smooth auto-adjusting style. Nitpicking some might say, but VW even has silicon dampened grab handles. The trunk has gooseneck hinges. Should have been struts we say but at least they covered up the metal hinges with some nice plastic.

Audio System
The new Q boasts a 300-watt Bose system with 8 speakers and digital signal processing. Just hype? While it may not be the best factory system, the Bose system is certainly in the top percentile with good definition and clean sound at loud levels. Three 2.5" midrange speakers sit on top of the dash. Two 6.5" woofers are located on the front doors with 5.25" full range speakers in the rear door. A 12" woofer (wow!) and a digital amplifier sit inside the rear shelf. Bose touts it's Audio Pilot system, which samples the sound within the cabin and adjusts the amplifier to compensate for road and wind noise.

We were yearning for an in dash CD player instead of the 6 disc glove compartment changer but you could overlook that once you spend a bit of time appreciating the system.

Overall
The new Q is quite impressive. The car has an enviable list of performance and luxury features for it's $50,500 base price tag, undercutting the competition by a few thousand dollars. The car takes risks in styling but pays off big time in communicating a distinctive message to those who see the car and, more importantly, those who get a chance to drive it. Enough justification, we think, to earn the car a hard-to-earn superhero vehicle status. After all, anyone who pays 50k for personal transportation should be able to experience these sort of manic feelings about themselves when driving. Otherwise, what's the point?

End

Infiniti and nissan are coming up with a new car lineup
check it out at

infinitihelp.com

[JBL85]

who the HELL IS GONNA READ ALL THAT......well that might just be me cuz its 4 am