2001 Camry Starting Problem - Diagnostic Help Needed

gnrboyd · 10-04-2014, 08:34 PM

I am in need of some diagnostic help for a starting problem on my wife's 2001 Toyota Camry / 2.2 4 Cyl / 130k.

For the past week, the car has been starting intermittently. When it doesn't start, you can hear a single click when turning the key to the start position but the starter doesn't crank. You can also hear a buzz coming from the back of the car which I assume is the fuel pump. You can hold the key in the start position for a while and then when you release it, you hear another single click. (The click is not that multiple click sound you hear sometimes with a bad battery.)

I changed out the battery cable connectors last weekend because they were in bad shape and thought I'd start there because they needed to be replaced anyway. That didn't solve the problem. I had the battery checked and it had a bad cell so I replaced it but that also didn't help. The starter was replaced about 4 years ago.

I can best reproduce the no-start condition by turning the key slowly and pulling outward slightly. I can best be assured of a start when I push inward on they key and turn the key quickly all in one swift motion.

After looking at some photos online of the ignition switch and the key tumbler assembly, I am wondering if the problem is a worn ignition switch. My logic is that because in my testing I am pulling outward on the key which would mean that the long stem on the tumbler that turns the ignition switch is not in as far as it could be. When I push in on the key and turn quick, it will be in the switch further and have a better grip which may cause it to work as it's supposed to.

I also wondered if it could be the starter/solenoid as it does seem to get power as I hear the click when I turn the key. It just seems odd that by changing the routine of the key turn, you can get it to start sometimes and sometimes not.

Now, I should tell you that I am not a mechanic and I don't fully understand how all of the components of the ignition system (key tumbler, ignition switch, relay, starter, solenoid, etc.) work together so I may be way off base. I would surely appreciate any feedback and diagnostic opinions as to what this problem may be (and why).

Thank you for your help.

Brian R. · 10-05-2014, 12:45 AM

It is most likely the contacts in the starter solenoid. You can replace them for around $40 with parts from Toyota or other vendors, or you can replace the starter. A cheap starter is not the way to go, IMO. See the following post in the FAQ:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...86&postcount=4

If you decide to replace the contacts, get the part numbers for the contact kits from a Toyota parts department. Use the kits and don't just replace the contacts. There are new nuts and seals in the kits.

I can supply you with a Field Service Manual for your engine if you want it. The contacts are very easy to replace.

Mike Gerber · 10-05-2014, 01:35 PM

I agree with Brian. The key situation is probably a red herring. It is most likely worn starter solenoid contacts. The click you are hearing is probably the starter relay engaging and sending power to the starter's solenoid. The contacts inside the solenoid are probably so corroded they are not transferring the power to the starter itself. There is a simple test to verify this. The next time the car doesn't start have someone hold the key in the start position while you go under the hood and tap the solenoid portion of the starter with a small hammer or a wrench. If the starter now turns, you have verified the worn starter solenoid contacts problem.

Mike

gnrboyd · 10-05-2014, 10:40 PM

Mike/Bryan,

Thanks for the input and suggestions. I pulled my old paperwork from when I had the previous starter installed. It was a premium remanufactured starter from NAPA. They are supposed to have a lifetime warranty so I am going to call the shop that put it in and see what they say. I called NAPA and they looked up the date of repair and told me they have no record of that shop buying a starter. This seems to be always my luck. Anyway, if I can't get the shop and/or NAPA to honor the warranty, I will go ahead and try the rebuild kits as you suggested. I found a couple of videos on the subject and it looks simple enough even for me.

I will post back with an update when I have one.

Also, while searching for starters online, I have seen 1.2kw and 1.4kw models but it isn't clear which one I have or need for my vehicle. Both options come up as compatible with my vehicle. My first thought is the difference is for 4 or 6 cyl but again, that isn't very clear on the sites I've looked at. Any ideas?

Thanks again.

Brian R. · 10-06-2014, 10:03 AM

Call a Toyota parts department and give them your VIN. Get the correct part numbers from them.

gnrboyd · 10-06-2014, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

The next time the car doesn't start have someone hold the key in the start position while you go under the hood and tap the solenoid portion of the starter with a small hammer or a wrench. If the starter now turns, you have verified the worn starter solenoid contacts problem.

Mike

I did this tonight and it worked like a charm. I guess this confirms the solenoid contacts are the problem. I will get the starter assembly either replaced under warranty or replace the contacts this weekend.

Thanks to both of you for your help! It's greatly appreciated.

Brian R. · 10-07-2014, 09:36 AM

Once the contacts are installed, make sure they sit flat in the housing. The manual uses a block of wood or metal held in place by 221 lbs of force to keep them flat and square to the plunger while they are tightened in place. The dimensions of the wood block are 20 x 37 x 40 mm (0.79 x 1.46 x 1.57 in, or 25/32 x 1 15/32 x 1 9/16 in)

gnrboyd · 10-07-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian R.

Once the contacts are installed, make sure they sit flat in the housing. The manual uses a block of wood or metal held in place by 221 lbs of force to keep them flat and square to the plunger while they are tightened in place. The dimensions of the wood block are 20 x 37 x 40 mm (0.79 x 1.46 x 1.57 in, or 25/32 x 1 15/32 x 1 9/16 in)

I spoke to the auto parts store today and they are going to warranty the starter provided it tests bad when I bring it in.

I watched a couple of videos on changing the contacts and didn't see that they used a block of wood. ...221 lbs. of force...... That seems awfully specific. You indicated earlier you could supply the manual. Is that a pdf file? I'd like to have it if that's the case.

Brian R. · 10-08-2014, 09:23 AM

I don't think the amount of force applied or the dimensions of the block are that critical. All that is needed is a block with flat/perpendicular sides, which prevents the contacts from getting cocked wrt the plunger when the nuts are tightened, and a force applied which is sufficient to prevent this cocking. Too much force will bend the contacts and cause a similar problem.

Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you a link to the manual.

gnrboyd · 10-11-2014, 09:02 PM

Update:

I replaced the starter today without too much trouble. (NAPA lifetime warranty - remanufactured starter) I started the car probably 25 times today with no problems so that was obviously my problem.

I did notice that the new starter seems to crank a couple of extra times more than the previous starter before it turns over. I don't know if different starters have their own personality or if there could be something wrong with this starter. I also hear a very slight screech right when the car turns over that the previous one didn't make. I'm not really too concerned about either of these issues and I'm probably being overly critical but I would still like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again for your help.

Brian R. · 10-12-2014, 07:59 PM

I would keep an ear out for a change in any noises, whether they change in frequency or get louder. As long as it keeps doing what it's doing, I wouldn't worry about it. Gears never match perfectly initially. I would guess the noise will get quieter over time. Did you double check that you got the correct part number starter?

gnrboyd · 10-12-2014, 10:31 PM

The starter had the same part number of the one that came out of the car. It was the NAPA 1.4kw with lifetime warranty which had been in the car for the last 4 1/2 years. I will keep an eye (ear) on it. It's my wife's car so I don't drive it myself very much.

Mike Gerber · 10-13-2014, 01:08 PM

"I did notice that the new starter seems to crank a couple of extra times more than the previous starter before it turns over. I don't know if different starters have their own personality or if there could be something wrong with this starter."

If the starter cranks the engine over at what you feel is the same speed as the old starter, then the starter has nothing to do with the longer cranking times. Keep a watch on that for other problems if it persists.

Mike

gnrboyd · 10-13-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

If the starter cranks the engine over at what you feel is the same speed as the old starter, then the starter has nothing to do with the longer cranking times. Keep a watch on that for other problems if it persists.

I see your point, but I didn't do anything else to the engine so I don't know what else it could be besides the starter/solenoid. ?? I can't really tell if the old & new starter are cranking at the same speed. I guess I will just have to keep an eye on things and go from there.

Thanks again to both of you for all of your help.

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