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Old 03-19-2005, 12:44 AM   #121
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Sp

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkylineUSA
How many cars total will be racing in a normal WCGT season? I would put money that the GTR would finish in the top 50%, if it can get a full season in.
Yeah, that's not all that hard to do as long as your car is reliable enough to finish the races. You do realize that the predictions for this car are slipping? First it was top 15s and top 10 finishes in races and now it's finishing in the top 50% in points for the season. HUGE difference there.

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As far as the IQ, you are missing my point. Don't key in on the fact that he is just a smart kid, he has a plan
You mean the plan where he goes straight from karting to professional road racing in less than a year and half?

Quote:
he has a team, and the kids has some skills, not necessarily on the race course yet, but with practise it will come.
I don't know what skills you're talking about, but there is no guarantee of racing talent no matter how much practice someone has, let alone a mere 15 months or so.

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As for the way he is going about it, speculation on my parts, it has to do with the car.
Could be. I'm still curious.

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Old 03-19-2005, 01:01 AM   #122
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Sp

Yeah, that's not all that hard to do as long as your car is reliable enough to finish the races. You do realize that the predictions for this car are slipping? First it was top 15s and top 10 finishes in races and now it's finishing in the top 50% in points for the season. HUGE difference there.

I have a more realistic point of view, I never said top 15

You mean the plan where he goes straight from karting to professional road racing in less than a year and half?

Time will tell.

I don't know what skills you're talking about, but there is no guarantee of racing talent no matter how much practice someone has, let alone a mere 15 months or so.

Once again, time will tell.

Could be. I'm still curious.

What do you know about the GTR? I have seen a GTR take out 911s, 355s, M3s, Evos, WRXs, Elises, NSXs, and GTOs in a head to head road racing circuit. And that was with the R33s. The R34 is a much better car than the R33.

Tiger,

So how many cars are in this racing series?
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:10 AM   #123
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challe

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkylineUSA
Ignorance is bliss.

That has to be one of the most uniformed quotes I have seen posted on the internet, way to go 98.
Are you willing to tell us flat out that the R34 GTR Skyline will outhandle the Viper Competition Coupes, the Pratt & Miller Caddy CTS-V's, the Farnbacher Racing Porsche 911GT3's, the Leighton Reese C6 Corvette, and the myriad number of C5 Corvette Z06's?

Especially considering that the series runs a spec tire with spec sizes. From the Speed World Challenge site themselves.

Quote:
Grand Touring (GT): The tires used are the Toyo Proxes RA-1 race compound DOT-approved tire. The size(s) used depend on the GT car. The sizes used in the GT class are the 245/40/18, 275/35/18, 305/35/18 and 335/30/18.
According to jbskyline.net, R34 GTR Skylines use 245/40 ZR18's off the showroom floor. SWC does make rules allotments for widened cars (very specific rules about how you can widen the fenders and by how much, though) and may allow use of the 305's, but it all depends on what the SCCA says you can run.
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:35 AM   #124
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31 GT cars showed up at Sebring this weekend. Here's the field breakdown.

11 Viper Competition Coupes
5 Porsche 911 GT3 Cups
2 Pratt & Miller Cadillac CTS-V's
4 Corvette C5 Z06's
3 Corvette C6's
1 1st generation Viper GTS coupe
2 Volvo S60R's
1 Saleen SR351
1 Pontiac GTO
1 Ford Mustang
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:11 AM   #125
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Layla's Keeper
Are you willing to tell us flat out that the R34 GTR Skyline will outhandle the Viper Competition Coupes, the Pratt & Miller Caddy CTS-V's, the Farnbacher Racing Porsche 911GT3's, the Leighton Reese C6 Corvette, and the myriad number of C5 Corvette Z06's?

Especially considering that the series runs a spec tire with spec sizes. From the Speed World Challenge site themselves.



According to jbskyline.net, R34 GTR Skylines use 245/40 ZR18's off the showroom floor. SWC does make rules allotments for widened cars (very specific rules about how you can widen the fenders and by how much, though) and may allow use of the 305's, but it all depends on what the SCCA says you can run.

Can out handle, hopefully we will see one way or the other.

Like Tiger mentioned, I am curious to find out.

The GTR is a very capable car. Top 50%, I would consider that being very competitive for a first year car, no?
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:36 AM   #126
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Sp

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkylineUSA
Could be. I'm still curious.

What do you know about the GTR? I have seen a GTR take out 911s, 355s, M3s, Evos, WRXs, Elises, NSXs, and GTOs in a head to head road racing circuit. And that was with the R33s. The R34 is a much better car than the R33.
[/b]

What are you referring to like that Japanese show that usually takes a bunch of exotic cars and throws on that circuit together? Regardless, most of what you've seen is probably not worth much in telling how good a car is. You'll see a Civic take out a Ferrari if one is a fully built racecar and the other one is just a cage. Most of the things you see on the internet aren't reliable. Most of those cars you mentioned are not really Speed-GT level cars. Speed GT is really somewhere between GT and GTS in classic terms. 355s would simply be demolished by even the slowest Speed GT cars and the M3 was never really meant to compete with V10s and 5 liter V8s with an I6. When it got the 4 liter V8 it kicked ass, but the 3.2 liter L6 is just too stressed already for GT, but it grab some poles and wins in the L6 format just cause it handles so well.

Anyway, back further you said "ignorance is bliss" and even more hilariously "that is the most uninformed comment ever" in regards to my statement that the Skyline's handling isn't that legendary. The Skyline handles great no doubt about it, but some make it out as if it's simply the best handling car ever or something when simply there are a bunch that handle better. Its mystique comes from its ability to create massive power, the forgiveness of a somewhat softly sprung awd the fantastic launches, but then a little bit too much from the internet which is filled mostly with kids who obsess over anything turbo and awd. The fact that is has never come to the US and appeared even less in American and European road racing has led to teens routinely making hyperbolic assumptions. Unfortunately it won't be able to race in the power trims that the most famous skylines have featured. Besides, in racing AWD is a whole other ball game as you're going to be experiencing the cost of extra wear on the front tires that rwd cars won't have, especially with the understeer that cars like the Skyline tend to create. The Skyline makes non-world-class drivers like us better...it lets us beat faster cars cause it's so forgiving. But world-class drivers don't need forgiving cars and a 911 is a better handling car when driven perfectly...most of us would die trying to drive a 911 anywhere near the limit, but look relatively decent driving a Skyline hard. And like I said, regardless of how well it handled compared to its contemporaries, it's an aging platform contesting against state of the art equipment.

Anyway kids, don't forget to miss the 12 hours of Sebring today (sat) to get a taste for the kind of action you see in Speed GT...Unfortunately they usually focus almost solely on the P1 category and GTS. F1 follows it too, but it has turned into somewhat of a bore fest.

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Old 03-19-2005, 05:14 AM   #127
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Sp

Quote:
Originally Posted by #98
What are you referring to like that Japanese show that usually takes a bunch of exotic cars and throws on that circuit together? Regardless, most of what you've seen is probably not worth much in telling how good a car is. You'll see a Civic take out a Ferrari if one is a fully built racecar and the other one is just a cage. Most of the things you see on the internet aren't reliable. Most of those cars you mentioned are not really Speed-GT level cars. Speed GT is really somewhere between GT and GTS in classic terms. 355s would simply be demolished by even the slowest Speed GT cars and the M3 was never really meant to compete with V10s and 5 liter V8s with an I6. When it got the 4 liter V8 it kicked ass, but the 3.2 liter L6 is just too stressed already for GT, but it grab some poles and wins in the L6 format just cause it handles so well.

Anyway, back further you said "ignorance is bliss" and even more hilariously "that is the most uninformed comment ever" in regards to my statement that the Skyline's handling isn't that legendary. The Skyline handles great no doubt about it, but some make it out as if it's simply the best handling car ever or something when simply there are a bunch that handle better. Its mystique comes from its ability to create massive power, the forgiveness of a somewhat softly sprung awd the fantastic launches, but then a little bit too much from the internet which is filled mostly with kids who obsess over anything turbo and awd. The fact that is has never come to the US and appeared even less in American and European road racing has led to teens routinely making hyperbolic assumptions. Unfortunately it won't be able to race in the power trims that the most famous skylines have featured. Besides, in racing AWD is a whole other ball game as you're going to be experiencing the cost of extra wear on the front tires that rwd cars won't have, especially with the understeer that cars like the Skyline tend to create. The Skyline makes non-world-class drivers like us better...it lets us beat faster cars cause it's so forgiving. But world-class drivers don't need forgiving cars and a 911 is a better handling car when driver perfectly, but most of us would die trying to drive a 911 and look good driving a Skyline. And like I said, regardless of how well it handled compared to its contemporaries, it's an aging platform contesting against state of the art equipment.

Anyway kids, don't forget to miss the 12 hours of Sebring today (sat) to get a taste for the kind of action you see in Speed GT...Unfortunately they usually focus almost solely on the P1 category and GTS. F1 follows it too, but it has turned into somewhat of a bore fest.
GTRs are not AWD. They are really partial AWD, more power to the ground.

But, you do make some good points.

I live in England, so I get to see a totally different realm that what you guys do for racing. So, I will have to wait and see the results posted on the internet.

One question 98, how many GTRs have you seen race in person? I have seen well over 100.

Good luck to all that have entered the race, and be safe.

Time will tell once the GTR can get in there and play.
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Old 03-19-2005, 06:50 AM   #128
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Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challenge Debut

Haven't seen much live action and what I have seen is not sound for judgement. What kind of races did you watch the Skylines participate in? Club level racing is sort of unhelpful for determining how cars will perform in professional series.

A little more info the 12 Hours of Sebring for anyone reading the thread. On Speed throughout most of the day...here are some interesting entries in addition to the dominant R8s, Vettes and GT3s in case you need some more convincing to watch it:

TVR 400
Spyker
Maserati MC12 (the enzo-dervied GT1 car)
Aston Martin's new DB9 GT1 car
TVR 400

Fully entry list and site link:

http://www.imsaracing.net/2003/event.../entrylist.pdf

and

http://www.sebringraceway.com/information.html
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Old 03-19-2005, 09:43 AM   #129
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Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challenge Debut

It's really a mute point either way. Let's just wait and see what happens when the GTR gets its chance.

I understand what you are say, it's very hard to be competitive with a bunch of unknowns. It takes years to get where these guys are at in this type of racing series, with their skills, cars, crew, learning the courses, sponsors, etc. The fact that this GTR might be thrown into the mix with a very young driver is ludicrous (in my best mike tyson voice), but if anyone can do it, Igor is your man

98, thanks for the links, very cool site.
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Old 03-19-2005, 10:56 AM   #130
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let me just add something here. i'm not road racer,and i sure as hell don't participate in proffessional road racing. but what makes this GTR different from buy just any other GT-R and modding our selves is that, the car that Igor bought is already a race car in the japanese proffesional league. Sure its no JGTC 500 car that pulls 3 G's in the corner average, but its still a japanese race car built by the same team that built the legendary 24 hour le man's racer Falken GT-R. so your saying that a 24 hour le mans race car is not in the same pedigree as the speed world challenge? the Falken GT-R ranked as high as 3rd in the nurburgring in 2003 before a clutch failure kept it off the podium. so a GT-R's chassis is still competitive with todays modern cars as long as its built right, and this GT-R is built by those same guys so i can safely say it is tuned right.

also this car already has its history of winning endurance races, the setup is proven to work and its victories proof it. now i'm just alittle worried about igor being competitive enough to race it to its 100% potential, but i'm no one to judge since i have no experience so i'm not goin to add any comment on that.
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:03 PM   #131
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Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challenge Debut

Quote:
Originally Posted by TatII
let me just add something here. i'm not road racer,and i sure as hell don't participate in proffessional road racing. but what makes this GTR different from buy just any other GT-R and modding our selves is that, the car that Igor bought is already a race car in the japanese proffesional league. Sure its no JGTC 500 car that pulls 3 G's in the corner average, but its still a japanese race car built by the same team that built the legendary 24 hour le man's racer Falken GT-R. so your saying that a 24 hour le mans race car is not in the same pedigree as the speed world challenge? the Falken GT-R ranked as high as 3rd in the nurburgring in 2003 before a clutch failure kept it off the podium. so a GT-R's chassis is still competitive with todays modern cars as long as its built right, and this GT-R is built by those same guys so i can safely say it is tuned right.

also this car already has its history of winning endurance races, the setup is proven to work and its victories proof it. now i'm just alittle worried about igor being competitive enough to race it to its 100% potential, but i'm no one to judge since i have no experience so i'm not goin to add any comment on that.
The avg. guy in the States really knows nothing about their history, the fact that they were killing everyone, even when the were adding weight to the GTRs to try to even the playing field.

Godzilla, the race history
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:05 PM   #132
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkylineUSA
What do you know about the GTR?
Almost nothing about the cars that have raced overseas and even less about World Challenge spec GTRs because they don't exist yet.

Quote:
I have seen a GTR take out 911s, 355s, M3s, Evos, WRXs, Elises, NSXs, and GTOs in a head to head road racing circuit.
My 355 Challenge car has bested most of those cars at various events. Of course, none of those were World Challenge cars. My Mustang has left my 355's times in the dust, but has taken years to come up to World Challenge speeds. I did watch a Mustang wipe the floor with other GT cars at the Laguna Seca race last October, but then it was being driven by a well respected and seasoned professional, Boris Said. As another poster alluded to, you really need to have an idea of the specs for each car to compare before being impressed by one beating another.

Quote:
So how many cars are in this racing series?
You can find entry lists for the past five years on the World Challenge website.

http://www.world-challenge.com/2005/entrylist-gt.html

Last year, an average of 30 cars were entered in each race. Currently there are 51 cars registered for the 2005 season, but less than half of those are regulars.

Quote:
Top 50%, I would consider that being very competitive for a first year car, no?
Not really. Like I said, just finishing each of the 10 or so races in a season will likely put you in the top 50% in points for the year. Hel, I finished in the top third in my second year and that was driving my 355.

C.
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:25 PM   #133
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Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challenge Debut

Quote:
Originally Posted by TatII
the car that Igor bought is already a race car in the japanese proffesional league. Sure its no JGTC 500 car that pulls 3 G's in the corner average, but its still a japanese race car built by the same team that built the legendary 24 hour le man's racer Falken GT-R. so your saying that a 24 hour le mans race car is not in the same pedigree as the speed world challenge?
Actually, Le Mans spec is a few steps above World Challenge. A car taken to that degree would not be elibigle for WCGT.

C.
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:25 PM   #134
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Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challenge Debut

I remember Boris Said's name from a few years ago when the late Paul Mumford beat him and the rest of the feild at Laguna.

I'm here to tell you guys/gal, the GTR is bred for this type of racing. Most of the guys here in England try to turn them into 1/4 milers, but that is not what they were built for.

I am not going to predict what the car will do anymore, but I will say you will take notice, good or bad
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Last edited by SkylineUSA; 03-19-2005 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:42 PM   #135
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Re: Re: 500 Horsepower 2001 Nissan Skyline GT-R N1 to Make Speed World Challenge Debu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Racing
Actually, Le Mans spec is a few steps above World Challenge. A car taken to that degree would not be elibigle for WCGT.

C.
this car is not the exact car that raced in le mans, it doesn't have a stroked 2.8 liter block, this one is pretty much a stock engined car with bolt ons, and it doenst' have the widend track either. however the point that i was making was that these people who built this particular GT-R also built a 24 hour le mans car, which means these guys knows what they are doing. i'm not sayin the car is goin to dominate, but i'm pretty sure it will be a competitive car.
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