The battle of supercars, how far has America come?

[3000ways]

Ok, ok, enough with the EVOs, talk about controversy. Let's move on, and for this comparison I ask that you please pay not attention to price. Just look at each vehicle for what they are, and that is awesome performance vehicles. The 2006 Dodge Viper SRT-10 GTS, the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06, and the 2005 Ford GT represent 3 of the most lethal American supercars. These cars are a step above the rest, they're all world renowned for their awesome performance, and all three of them have atleast 500HP. I've been waiting a long time for the day when I could truly compare 3 American supercars to their European counterparts, has this day arrived? Regardless of price, how do the American supercars compare to the 2005 Ferrari F430 F1, 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo, and the 2004 Porsche 911 GT2. Despite the leap and bounds of the American supercars, are the European cars still superior to their American competition? If you believe this is not the case please explain why? Which of these cars do you believe is the best in this comparison, regardless of price? Can the American match not only the performance, but the style of the European supercars? You can place the cars in order from the best performance to worst performance if you like?

2006 Dodge Viper SRT-10 GTS
8.3L
10-Cylinder
6-Speed Manual
3450Lbs
500HP@5600RPM
525TQ@4600RPM

vs.

2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
7.0L
8-Cylinder
6-Speed Manual
3150Lbs
500HP@6200RPM
475TQ@4800RPM

vs.

2005 Ford GT
5.4L
Supercharged 8-Cylinder
6-Speed Manual
3470Lbs
550HP@6500RPM
500TQ@3750RPM

vs.

2005 Ferrari F430 F1
4.3L
8-Cylinder
6-Speed Auto-Clutch Manual
3200Lbs
483HP@8500RPM
343TQ@5250RPM

vs.

2005 Lamborghini Gallardo
5.0L
10-Cylinder
6-Speed Auto-Clutch Manual
3560Lbs
493HP@7800RPM
376TQ@4500RPM

vs.

2004 Porsche 911 GT2
3.6L
Twin-Turbocharged 6-Cylinder
6-Speed Manual
3180Lbs
483HP@5700RPM
472TQ@4500RPM

In case you wondering, all these cars are capable of running 11s (with the exception of the Lamborghini Gallardo). My list goes like this-

#1- 2005 Ferrari F430 F1
#2- 2004 Porsche 911 GT2
#3- 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
#4- 2005 Ford GT
#5- 2006 Dodge Viper SRT-10 GTS
#6- 2005 Lamborghini Gallardo

As you can see, I still rate the European cars ahead of the American cars, what do you guys think?

[M3FordBoy]

Why would you put the Z06 above the Ford GT and Viper. We have seen photos and specs but it hasn't been tested yet. I think it will be fast but not faster than the Ford GT or Viper.

My list:
1. Ford GT
2. Ferrari F430
3. Viper SRT-10
4.Corvette Z06
5.911 GT2
6.Lambo Gallardo

I wasn't real sure were to put the GT2 or Z06. But I would realy like to see the F430 and Ford GT head to head. I think it would be close, but Road and Track tested the F430 0-60mph 3.5 and Ford GT 3.3. The F1 transmision gives it a pretty good advantage and it has a shorter stroke just put the pedle to the floor and tap a hand pedle to shift.

While the Ford GT is I sure harder to drive if you get it right it can be fast. All the torque and no traction control it is easy to light up the tires on the star.

I think the 0-60 for the Viper is 3.6 ish. And I've heard it can from 60 in less than 100'.

The Z06 if it is what they say will probley be faster than the GT2 witch off the top of my 0-60 in 4.2? And you know the Z06 will probley be able to handle realy well.

As for the Gallardo I have no clue realy but I know the Ford GT is faster so I left it were you had it.

Man this was long and I know there is more than 0-60 times, but they are the easiest to remember so I don't have to reaserch.

[M3FordBoy]

You could also throw in the Saleen S7 but that not realy a prodution car and there probley haven't been 200 made yet in over year, but it would dominate all even the Enzo.

[drunken monkey]

...this is not a flame.....

but
i think that something has to be done about the 'bigger for cheaper' mentality in the american psyche.

by far the biggest difference between the american top end cars and the european top end cars is the quality of materials and finish.
if the american car companies actual recognise this and even make a half arsed attempt to make a true 'quality' car then it would once and for all shut everyone up.
the Z06?
possibly the best american car of that type
(esp if you agree with the car press over here)
BUT if the C6 is anything to go by, not the best 'dressed'....

y'know, if it is supposed to be a flagship top end performance car, then make the effort.
the excuse of it being 'affordable' comapred to say a ferrari is, i think pointless.
after all, that's not stopped the order books being full when a new car comes out has it?

it has been said before by many people,
faster doesn't always mean it's better.
as the ever popular EVO debates have brought to light, it's not exactly a car for those who don't have a dental plan and well, they try their best to not mention the dash.

it has been said that in a corvette, the point is to drive fast so the quality of the interior doesn't matter.
but then what about the times when you're not?
what about when you're stuck behind a tractor on your favourite b road and you start to notice the things around you?

in a ferrari, you start to appreciate the lovely and soft hand stitched leather of the steering wheel a little more.
you notice the way the leather is joined in all of them panels to perfectly fit the dash console.
at that point, when you're not thrashing the pants of it, it is clear why you bought a ferrari:
because it is a true top end performance car.
it's not just fast but with the exception of the stripped out bare minimum cars, quite a luxurious proposition
(confort issues aside...)

the thing is, we don't all go and buy the very latest car at the drop of a hat.
we all like to own the 'perfect' car and the interior, like it or not, is part of the car as a whole.
call me picky but i think i'd prefer to have car in which just as many good things can be said about things like the interior, exterior, technology as is said about the way it drives.

i'll let someone else argue ove the 'tech' behind american cars.
personally, whilst i'm not a big fan of 'oversized' engines (i.e 8.0 litre V8....) but i think that is part of the character of the car.
pesonally, i'm more a fan of the perfectly and meticulously engineered engines.
best example is the little flat 6 as seen in the GT3 or the 4.2V8 of the F430.

so superior in terms of what?
numbers? racing times?

you wanted an opinion.
here's mine.
as a machine, in terms of quality of production, as an object by itself and as something to drive,
i think the european cars are still better.

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by M3FordBoy

You could also throw in the Saleen S7 but that not realy a prodution car and there probley haven't been 200 made yet in over year, but it would dominate all even the Enzo.

So why was Ferrari forced to sand bag the crap of the MC12 if the S7 is so superior to the Enzo?

[NISSANSPDR]

I'd take

1)Ferrari
2)Lambo
3)Ford
4)Dodge
5)Chevy

If this was not about money...if it was...then it would be a different list...but if money is no object...then this is my list

[M3FordBoy]

Originally Posted by Neutrino

So why was Ferrari forced to sand bag the crap of the MC12 if the S7 is so superior to the Enzo?

I'm talking about street performance the 0-60 time for the S7 is around 3.1 and the Enzo is aruond 3.3. I don't fallow racing to much so I don't know the story behind the MC12 platform why you elaborate more for us who don't know. And I would bet that the S7 can stick to the road just as well as the Enzo.

[drunken monkey]

....sigh.....
i try to put a little effort and 'passion & soul' into this and the kids all race on here with their 0-60 times......

[M3FordBoy]

^like I said in my first post there is alot more to a car than 0-60, but I use it more because it is harder to remember all the other specs for all these cars I'm got some but not all.

[syr74]

I would pick the Ford first and the GT2 second based on soul and character. I like some individuality in my car, but the Ferrari, Lambo, and Viper all remind me of the kind of owner who wears alligator shoes and checks his hair in the mirror before backing out of the drive.

When I think of a car cruising down Rodeo Drive or crusing by the beach in Miami I think Viper or Lambo, and to some extent Ferrari with their increasingly over the top styling. 9someone at Ferrari needs to look back at the 355 and F40 for inspiration) When I think of LeMans or the Ring that is where Porsche's or GT's are easy to envision for me.

And, I much prefer the GT to the S7. Saleen's supercar is just overwrought when compared to the cheaper GT. It's like an American car maker decided to do a Lambo.

[drunken monkey]

y'know,
of the cars listed, i think i would either choose the GT or the Gallardo as my top car.....

the GT because i have a passion for all things GT40 shaped.
the Gallardo because it kinda makes sense to me as an everyday car.
if i had to choose a car to own if these two, it'd be the Gallardo.
in Blue metallic.

the main reason for not chosing the others is not that I don't like them but that there are probably other cars from the makers that i'd much prefer to have.

in the case of ferrari, i'd much rather have a 288 GTO, 365 boxer or 246 Dino.
porsche GT3 (first one) appeals to me more.
i can't honestly say that the american offerings appeal to me at all.

the Gallardo, in my opinion, sits quite nicely next to an LP400 countach.....

[Jimster]

IMHO, the Z06 is not a supercar, more like a fast sports car. A supercar has to be three things 1. Fast, 2. Expensive, 3. Built in small numbers. The only catagorey the Z06 satisfies is fast, hence I'm going to leave it be.

Now as for the rest of the cars:

F430: Fast, extremely fast for that matter, yet more usable on road than any small Ferrari that went before it, it's expensive but you certainly get what you pay for, things like an Active differential, revised sequential transmission, a beautifully crafted interior with little or no plastics and quite possibly the worlds finest engine behind you. I guess I also forgot to mention that the 360 Modena was the handling template for the Ford GT, so the F430 should be an evolution of that.

Viper Coupe: This is kind of like what a Supercar should be in a way, it's a modern day Shelby Cobra, which is why it's one of my all-time favourite cars. It's unforgiving if you push it too hard, the old one had the worlds most unergonomical interior and was uncomfortable (Can't speak for the new one), it has a monster of an engine that has enough potential to blow anything into the dust and it looks brilliant. In a way it has the perfect "Hey buddy don't fuck with me" attitude, so much so that it doesn't bother me one bit that it lacks the finesse of the Europeans.

Porsche 911 GT2: As much as I like this car, the GT3 is a better track car IMHO. I really don't have much to say about it, the 993 was much nicer and had much more character, this car leaves me cold.

Ford GT: It's the best looking, it's fast and it handles well (Though the understeer in the hammerhead corner of the Top Gear test track was alarming, but could have been how the Stig (IIRC, the real life guy behind the Stig was a would-be F1 driver) was driving it), but realistically it's a last ditch effort by Ford to try and rescue thier deteriorating brand image and try put themselves in the black ink for once. Things were much more interesting back in the late 60's......

Lamborghini Gallardo: Not a genuine Lamborghini, just a fancy Audi. Audi forgot to realise that Lamborghini's are not supposed to be reliable, easy to drive and over-engineered like all the rest of Audi's cars, Lamborghini's were unforgiving harsh and brute-like and that's why everyone loved them. It's a good car, just not a good Lamborghini.


So the final ranking:

1. Ferrari F430
2= Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe
2= Ford GT
4. Porsche 911 GT2
5. Lamborghini Gallardo
6. Chevrolet Corvette Z06

[3000ways]

Originally Posted by M3FordBoy

Why would you put the Z06 above the Ford GT and Viper. We have seen photos and specs but it hasn't been tested yet. I think it will be fast but not faster than the Ford GT or Viper.

Actually Manufactuer tests have claimed 1/4 Mile time of 11.7@127MPH. I feel like that time is pretty much accurate and may even be faster when looking at power to weight the Corvette (6.3) has a better power to weight ratio then both the Viper (6.9) and GT (6.309). The Corvette also has shorter gearing than the Viper. I have very high hopes for the Corvette and have no doubt it will be the better of the Viper and possibly the GT, because it was built with the intentions of beating the Viper.

To me it was very close between the Z06 and GT2, somebody mentioned that the GT2 0-60 time was 4.2 Seconds, perhaps they mistook it for the GT3 which does 0-60 in 4.2 Seconds. Motor Trend tested the 456HP 2003 GT2 at 3.8 Seconds and Road and Track tested the 2003 model at 3.6 Seconds to 60 MPH. The 2004 483HP version should be even quicker.

[syr74]

IMHO the Z06 will be very lucky to outrun the Viper, and does not stand a prayer against a GT. And in truth, I am glad GM is building the Z06 because this car is going to show people why the torque rating is just as important a judge of acceleration as horsepower rating.

The Zo6 has a peak hp rating the equal of the Viper and Vette. Wether actual hp is the same will have to wait for Z06 dyno runs though as the GT is seriously under-rated by Ford (nearly 100hp under-rated) and the Dodge boys sand-bagged the Viper too. That said, even with equal hp the Z06 is going to give up a lot in torque.

But, back to hp and torque rating in general though they both really tell you the same thing, but the different way they show this information gives you a better idea of acceleration accross the power curve. The Viper beats the vette on low-end torque, and the GT just slays it in this respect. Ford GT's have run as fast as 11.2 through the 1/4, I would not expect a 500hp n/a production Vette to be able to do the same.

[drunken monkey]

"Porsche 911 GT2: As much as I like this car, the GT3 is a better track car ....."

and much less likely to kill you.

"Lamborghini Gallardo: Not a genuine Lamborghini......"
and for some bizarre reason, it's kinda why i like it.
as you said it's a good car and that's all i'm looking at.
personally, there are only two lamborghini's worth having and surprisingly, they're both LP400.....
as i said, the Gallardo, to me, is just a very nicely built fast car and in a ways, that's quite attractive as a package.
easy to drive it maybe but then that means being to wring every ounce of it relatively safely.

i also much prefer the look it (esp in that blue metallic i've seen) to any of the others listed
(GT not included..... but i'd probably want to get a GTD 40 or something instead of the new GT)