Questions on Timing Cover Gasket Job

[xiaodoupi]

Hi there,

I am about to do this job.
Background:
1999 windstar 3.8
Found milky color sludge under the oil cap. little bit oil contamination in coolant. replaced intake manifold gasket, changed oil after this.

What parts/conponents I need to remove before lower the subframe? Or can I remove the timing cover without lower the subframe?

Thanks mates

[tomj76]

I'm of the opinion that you don't need to lower or remove the subframe to do this repair. I believe you can do it by disconnecting the engine mount so that the engine is lifted about 2-3" in the front, so that the water pump can be removed (you'll also need to remove the alternator, PS pump, and maybe the A/C compressor). Once the water pump is out, then remove the harmonic balancer, ALL the bolts in the front cover (a few "hidden" ones and loosen the studs around the water pump. Then the front cover can be removed. I didn't actually remove the front cover in this way, because the studs had corroded and couldn't be turned. Since I was planning to remove the block anyway, I removed the block with the front cover still attached (intake and heads were removed separately before pulling the block.) It ended up that I had to heat the front cover a fair amount (with propane) to get the studs out, but when I re-installed the front cover, I did it as described above.

[12Ounce]

Someone just asked me this question on a private message ... and now I've misplaced/deleted the message (by mistake) and cannot find it. So hopefully my answer here will suffice:

(BTW, my answer is a bit dated and I may not remember some stuff ... so be sure to get some info such as a Haynes and look at the exploded views on the on-line Ford parts catalogues.)

Yes, to remove the front cover all the auxiliary belt driven stuff must be removed ... as well as the harmonic balancer and the synchronizer shaft. So it is a good time to read up on the synchronizer shaft and how to "time" it ... you may need to by the little plastic timing tool, not a biggy. The ac compressor can be removed and supported without disconnecting the refrigerant lines. Note that the front cover also supports the oil pump ... so the oil pick up tube must be unfastened from the oil pump. I think I remember dropping the oil pan for this. I would plan on doing the lower intake gaskets and seals at the same time ... but that's just me.

I did lower the sub-frame, but just a bit, onto some wooden 4x4's ... so it could be moved over to the left for some working room. I did not detach the steering assembly, but if I were to do it again I would, at least, remove the single connecting bolt and let the column slide a bit as needed.

My job went pretty good and the results were "good", but not wonderful. Now, after some several miles and much time ... I'm getting a small leak again. If I ever do such a job again, I going to try a (different) sealant on the gaskets... perhaps "Permatex Permaschield Fuel Resistant Gasket Dressing and Flange Sealant".

My engine is now at near 450K miles, and I was hoping to get it to 500K miles before letting it go. Not sure if I'm gonna re-gasket it now or not.

Good luck!

[xiaodoupi]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Someone just asked me this question on a private message ... and now I've misplaced/deleted the message (by mistake) and cannot find it. So hopefully my answer here will suffice:

(BTW, my answer is a bit dated and I may not remember some stuff ... so be sure to get some info such as a Haynes and look at the exploded views on the on-line Ford parts catalogues.)

Yes, to remove the front cover all the auxiliary belt driven stuff must be removed ... as well as the harmonic balancer and the synchronizer shaft. So it is a good time to read up on the synchronizer shaft and how to "time" it ... you may need to by the little plastic timing tool, not a biggy. The ac compressor can be removed and supported without disconnecting the refrigerant lines. Note that the front cover also supports the oil pump ... so the oil pick up tube must be unfastened from the oil pump. I think I remember dropping the oil pan for this. I would plan on doing the lower intake gaskets and seals at the same time ... but that's just me.

I did lower the sub-frame, but just a bit, onto some wooden 4x4's ... so it could be moved over to the left for some working room. I did not detach the steering assembly, but if I were to do it again I would, at least, remove the single connecting bolt and let the column slide a bit as needed.

My job went pretty good and the results were "good", but not wonderful. Now, after some several miles and much time ... I'm getting a small leak again. If I ever do such a job again, I going to try a (different) sealant on the gaskets... perhaps "Permatex Permaschield Fuel Resistant Gasket Dressing and Flange Sealant".

My engine is now at near 450K miles, and I was hoping to get it to 500K miles before letting it go. Not sure if I'm gonna re-gasket it now or not.

Good luck!

I found another post by you. You mentioned you did this job before (1st time) without lowered subframe. Is it really possible?
Thanks
I just removed alternator and bracket. The bolts are too tight. And some the screws holding splash shield are rusted. I had to cut out small slots to knock it loose with hammer and screw driver. Pretty time consuming...

[12Ounce]

If I wrote that, I must have been on something real good! No, I see no way to change the front cover with out moving the engine ... up, down, sideways ... somewhere. Now I did replace the water pump once by busting knuckles, even then I raised the engine a bit. Not much workspace on the engine front.

[xiaodoupi]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

If I wrote that, I must have been on something real good! No, I see no way to change the front cover with out moving the engine ... up, down, sideways ... somewhere. Now I did replace the water pump once by busting knuckles, even then I raised the engine a bit. Not much workspace on the engine front.

Yes, I see. Relly limited working space there. I really wish to pull the bastard out, and shot those bolts out with the impact machine gun.
Btw, can I lower the passenger side subframe, and only loose the drive side bolts without fully lowered?

[12Ounce]

I don't think that would get you much space. Remember, I wanted to move the whole assembly over until the tranny made contact with the left side framing ... a bit over an inch if I remember. Properly supported, the sub-frame should not get away from you in any way. Of course, there are other obvious pieces to the puzzle ... such as loosening the upper strut nuts so they will swing, removing the air intake horn, etc, etc. And as I've mentioned; loosening the steering column from the rack.

[tomj76]

OK, as I mentioned, I removed the entire power train from my '96 without dropping the subframe, so it is absolutely possible. The question that I think you're asking is if there is less work to remove the front cover without dropping the frame and engine.

For the average guy working in a normal household garage, I think it would be easier to take it out without removing the engine.

As already mentioned by 12Oz, no matter how it is done, you need to remove: PS pump, alternator, oil pump, harmonic balancer, AC compressor, serpentine tensioner & Idler. I don't remember if the CMP sensor has to be removed, but make sure to mark it if you do.

The biggest challenge that I had that prevented me from taking off the cover without taking out the block first was corrosion on the long studs that were on either side of the coolant pump outlet. The would not turn regardless of what approach I used until I applied heat to the front cover.

I did lift the engine a few inches to give enough clearance to get the water pump pulley off, and maybe the water pump too. I'm sure that took full advantage of any benefit to moving the engine around by lifting or dropping it a couple of inches.

Make sure you get all the cover bolts out before prying on it. There are a couple that may be hard to locate, one a recessed hex-socket screw near the oil pump.

[12Ounce]

A small but important point one must understand before attempting to remove front cover. The synchronizer is the device that rotates as the engine rotates and has the sensor mounted to the top to identify the position of the camshaft, relative to the crankshaft. There is a small gear pinned to the shaft that drives/rotates the shaft ... this gear is meshed with a similar gear on either the cam, or the counterbalance, or the crank shaft ... I don't remember which. Therefore, the shaft must be totally withdrawn before the cover can be moved.

The bottom end of the synchronizer shaft extends, with a hex shaft coupler, into the oil pump to drive it. After the synchronizer shaft and coupler are withdrawn, the cover can be removed with the oil pump left in place ... assuming there is workspace.

[wiswind]

As xaiododupi certainly knows now.....this is NOT an easy afternoon project. Myself, I would have this done by a reliable mechanic because it exceeds what I want to take on.
Someone mentioned replacing the lower intake manifold gaskets.....which I also recommend, as well as the heater cross over pipe, which passes through the lower intake manifold (it can develop pin holes that can leak) it is easy to change as you have the lower intake manifold off and disconnected.

Also....someone mentioned changing the water pump as you have done almost all the work involved in changing it.....I would add coolant hoses to the list as you are disconnect many of those already.

Again, this is not a afternoon project for a shade tree mechanic....it will take much more time.......and being in a hurry is not going to serve you well.