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Old 12-01-2007, 09:51 PM   #16
KiwiBacon
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.A.S.
read this tid bit of infromation.
beings we are mechanics/techs, this will be an interesting bit of reading for some of you.
I restore antique tractors and use this process all the time and it works great.
http://royalcrossfarm.com/electrolysis.htm
I use a similar electrolysis method to also clean up rusted parts. For that it works quite well. But alas, for running a car it is completely useless.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:28 AM   #17
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

In fact it is not useless. And you can make your HHO simply by yourself from distilled water, and get 10-50 % more mpg using this method. Easy and simple. You don't need much hydrogen to use as a hybrid fuel to your car's engine, and it _does_ increase your mileage. It also cleans your engine while burning.

Have you tried it? Many others have, and it seems to work. Really.

http://mikasf.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:48 PM   #18
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

enough of this nonsense already...

look, if any of this cr@p actually worked, it would be on every production car made.
there used to be at least a shred of convincability to the conspiracy theories of the govt not backing fuel economy research, and keeping fuel economy low, but in todays age of $3.00+ a gallon gas, this all goes out the window.

just look at all the major manufacturers.
ford, honda, chevy, toyota... they all have hybrids and are researching ways to get better mileage from one gallon of gas/diesel.

how about this idea...
we put a big mirror on the back of the car and reflect the headlights of other cars backwards to gain a little bit of thrust.

or we could all fart into tubes all day long and store the energy and burn it.

ect.

all these outlandish ideas are cr@p...


the real secret in fuel economy is loosing weight and driving less.
after all, cars burn zero gas when parked.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:34 PM   #19
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikasf
In fact it is not useless. And you can make your HHO simply by yourself from distilled water, and get 10-50 % more mpg using this method. Easy and simple. You don't need much hydrogen to use as a hybrid fuel to your car's engine, and it _does_ increase your mileage. It also cleans your engine while burning.

Have you tried it? Many others have, and it seems to work. Really.

http://mikasf.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/
HHO does not exist. The products of electrolysing water are hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2).
Anyone who claims the have a device which produces HHO can be quickly and accurately dismissed as a quack.

The rate that hydrogen and oxygen are produced by electrolysis is soo slow that it cannot affect the running of a car engine at all.
Exactly what effect do you think a hydrogen bubble the size of a flys fart in every cubic metre of air will have?

Are you a vendor of such a system?
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:40 PM   #20
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiBacon
HHO does not exist. The products of electrolysing water are hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2).
Anyone who claims the have a device which produces HHO can be quickly and accurately dismissed as a quack.
Amen to that. I want to vomit every time I see those phony links to a Fox News story about HHO.

You can use electrolysis to supplement your gasoline intake a tiny bit... I mean on the order of 1/10,000 of the intake volume, but you have to understand that an alternator can take up to 1 hp per every 15 amps it creates. 15 amps won't make nearly enough hydrogen to make a difference, but it WILL drag down the alternator and spoil any fuel mileage gains you might have created; not to mention dramatically reducing the service life of your charging system. There is no free energy, so simpler is better. Any time you add on another system, you are wasting more energy than you're gaining. Its a chemical fact.

A 15 amp solar panel these days is about 5' x 10', weighs somewhere around 100 lbs, and costs in the neighborhood of $2000. So, until you spend the money on the panels, mount them to the car, wire them in, and design and buy your hydrogen system, you'll be big bucks into a system that only works in bright direct sunlight and doesn't provide nearly enough hydrogen to notice any difference. Plus, I would imagine that a 50 square foot sail on top of your car can't be good for mileage either.

The reason its not done is because it CAN'T be done... not with current technology. The internet is so full of this free-energy, government conspiracy, youtube nonsense that it makes me want to learn how to write a computer virus so I can shut youtube and FoxNews down. I'm all for government conspiracies, but hydrogen technology is not being kept down by snipers and men in black suits, its good old fashioned physical laws, like the law of conservation of energy. Can't get around that one. Its a biggie.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:49 AM   #21
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

Yeah, I know your "one and only" thruths and chemical laws. And I know that this is very difficult to believe. What if you think about it on that side:

It uses energy, which comes from gasoline, to separate much, much more powerful fuel, hydrogen, from water. What would we get with hydrogen? Less temperature losses, much leaner mixture in the engine, less friction losses with cleaner engine. I believe that these are the ways that make the difference in fuel economy, not just the power of hydrogen vapor.

Hydrogen is most powerful fuel in the world, or can you deny that too? It means that you don't need it much to make a difference.

I am _not_ saying that the energy is coming out of nowhere. It is about using the energy inside of gasoline, smarter, to create hydrogen. And think about it, why would anyone write 400 pages full of crap, just to get good laughs about people's stupidness? Who are these over hundred people who have signed their name above it? And when did I mention any solar panels?

Yes. I have read the books. I also didn't believe it earlier. Try it.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:17 AM   #22
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

hydrogen DOES have alot of energy. but the main problem with your theory is that the product of hydrogen combustion is water. so you take water, extract hydrogen, burn the hydrogen and end up with water. even in a 100% efficient process (which electrolysis is NOT) you would end up with 0 energy gained, 0 lost. that means that in order to make a system that works, you need to develop a machine that would be able to make this process more than 100% efficient, meaning you're getting more energy out than you put in, meaning you've just created perpetual motion.

using hydrogen to power cars, IMO, is a terrible idea until we find a way to extract it efficiently. electrolysis won't work because we might as well be using electric cars because they'll be more efficient (less energy lost from the generators to the cars). so i think people need to forget this whole thing until someone finds some technology that makes it better than electric, which'll be damn hard to do.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:35 AM   #23
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

...

I am not going to make a perpetual motion. I am trying to tell you that we aren't using all the energy that's inside gasoline. Great part of it comes out of the exhaust pipes, uselessly. IF we would convert the energy of fuel, into electric power, and so on into a hydrogen, we would get more power instead of high temperatures and friction. That is why this system saves fuel.
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Old 12-04-2007, 11:47 AM   #24
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

i just checked out that website about the electrolysis machine. i can't believe anyone believes that bullshit. hmm, i'm going to put a bottle of water and tubes under my hood and save an assload of money.

by the way, they're right when they say they're producing HHO gas, know why? because that's WATER, HHO = H2O. and that water is just boiling off because of the low pressure from the vacuum line.

the thing that just screams scam to me is the fact that the whole web page looks like one giant infomercial.... i guess that's how they make money. the same people who would buy stuff from an infomercial would probably fall for this.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:03 PM   #25
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

mikasf- You are spamming this site with nonsense, therefore you are banned.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:26 PM   #26
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

I love when people who have absolutley NO experience with chemistry and thermodynamics spout off this bullshit as gospel. And they defend it to the grave despite being completly stupid about the subject.

In thermo, you can't win, and you can't even break even. People who are about this "make hydrogen from water and burn it!" dont understand a simple concept, even if you spell it out for them.

Even the ones who want to produce hydrogen gas is mass quantities to put in bottles to run cars on have NO clue how dangerous pressurized liquid hydrogen is, not to mention the fact that it diffuses through any container, i.e. it leaks out of EVERYTHING!
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:54 PM   #27
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel
In thermo, you can't win, and you can't even break even.
You can break even if you get to 0 degrees kelvin.
But getting there is a problem.

Thanks to the mod who banned that muppet.
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Old 12-04-2007, 05:56 PM   #28
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

imo, the best arguement against a "hydrogen economy" is more or less what bourito said...

hydrogen comes from water.
when you burn hydrogen, you get water.

perpetual motion is impossible, so therefore, a hydrogen economy is (wait for it...)
impossible.
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:31 PM   #29
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyGoose006
imo, the best arguement against a "hydrogen economy" is more or less what bourito said...

hydrogen comes from water.
when you burn hydrogen, you get water.

perpetual motion is impossible, so therefore, a hydrogen economy is (wait for it...)
impossible.

Actually one thing has nothing to do with the other. Not to get way off topic here, but a hydrogen economy is completely plausable given that the Earth is not a closed energy system. There is enough energy in the form of light alone to power all our needs a million times over, that includes cracking all the water into fuel we could ever want.

The trick is to stop digging up stored chemical energy and start using a small fraction of what currently bounces off our planet to supply our needs.
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Old 12-04-2007, 08:12 PM   #30
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Re: Hydrogen inside Air Intake increases Gas Mileage?

the problem is that we'll have to make the extraction of hydrogen, transportation, etc. more efficient than electric vehicles in order to make it worthwhile. i just don't see it happening.
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