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Old 09-24-2003, 01:46 PM   #1
akina_speedstars
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anti-sway bars

Just as a discussion, do you think it is worth getting anti-sway bars and non-adjustable shocks or only adjustable shocks.

Recently, I bought Tokico HP and ST sway bars. I can see that roll is going to decrease. Due to how sway bars work, it seems that they will absorb some shock and in so doing, take away some of the pressure from the struts.
So, if that is the case, then all I really needed to update were the struts with adjustable ones (like Tokico Illuminas or KYB AGXs). So, dialing up the resistance would assist in anti-roll duties.

On Formula 1 cars, there are no anti-roll bars. On street race cars, the professionals install beefier sway bars in addition to "real" coil-overs(BMW 3 series, drift cars like AE86, etc.)

The question here is would it be better just to install stiffer struts or shocks and removing anti-roll bars. Or, do anti-roll bars do more than reduce roll because of street car suspension geometry/design.
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Old 09-24-2003, 03:37 PM   #2
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Re: anti-sway bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by akina_speedstars
Just as a discussion, do you think it is worth getting anti-sway bars and non-adjustable shocks or only adjustable shocks.

Recently, I bought Tokico HP and ST sway bars. I can see that roll is going to decrease. Due to how sway bars work, it seems that they will absorb some shock and in so doing, take away some of the pressure from the struts.
So, if that is the case, then all I really needed to update were the struts with adjustable ones (like Tokico Illuminas or KYB AGXs). So, dialing up the resistance would assist in anti-roll duties.

On Formula 1 cars, there are no anti-roll bars. On street race cars, the professionals install beefier sway bars in addition to "real" coil-overs(BMW 3 series, drift cars like AE86, etc.)

The question here is would it be better just to install stiffer struts or shocks and removing anti-roll bars. Or, do anti-roll bars do more than reduce roll because of street car suspension geometry/design.
The general rule is that the purpose of anti-sway bars from the factory is to make the shock spring combo soft, for a comfortable ride, and to add antisway bars to counter the effects of roll. Sway bars are bandaids to counter roll. If your shock spring combo is stiff enough and low enough to reduce roll center and manage pitch and roll, the less need you have for sway bars.

The exception is that you can use them to promote under or oversteer, if your suspension is still not balanced to your liking.

In our most recent discussion we talked about how Tein spring rates are excessively front biased.

Spring rates of 448 in the front 224 in the rear, the car will naturally push or understeer, with a setup like this. To counter the effects to bring the rear around you would add a rear sway bar or add one with increased stiffness.

Does this make sense?
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Old 09-25-2003, 11:12 PM   #3
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Re: anti-sway bars

F1 cars and street cars cant be compared. I think you could use a book called : How to Make Your Car Handle - summit racing caries it.
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Old 09-26-2003, 01:26 PM   #4
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Re: Re: anti-sway bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezoris
The general rule is that the purpose of anti-sway bars from the factory is to make the shock spring combo soft, for a comfortable ride, and to add antisway bars to counter the effects of roll. Sway bars are bandaids to counter roll. If your shock spring combo is stiff enough and low enough to reduce roll center and manage pitch and roll, the less need you have for sway bars.

The exception is that you can use them to promote under or oversteer, if your suspension is still not balanced to your liking.

In our most recent discussion we talked about how Tein spring rates are excessively front biased.

Spring rates of 448 in the front 224 in the rear, the car will naturally push or understeer, with a setup like this. To counter the effects to bring the rear around you would add a rear sway bar or add one with increased stiffness.

Does this make sense?


I'll add to this though, if you can, DO get swaybars. This is just a personal preferance though. If your springs/shocks are stiff enough to counter body roll by themselves like Dezoris mentioned about, then you probably won't be driving the car on the streets as it'll be WAY too stiff for you. This is why swaybars are good. You can have a softer suspension, but still reduce body roll by using them.

I'm getting 2kg stiffer springs installed on my car today, and last night I pulled off my 22mm Teg Type-R rear swaybar I have on my Civic so that I could put some poly bushings on it that I picked up. After pulling the bar I drove the car around a little and WOW what a differance that bar made. I mean there was so much body slop, I think it had more roll than a 300lbs woman! But seriously, it really does make a differance. Front end plow on curves was much greater, and the car just didn't feel very tight at all. I don't have a front swaybar though (never have) so that kinda works in my favor when I have the ITR rear bar on, helps to promote even more oversteer than what it would otherwise. But like Dezoris said, manufactures generally use bars as a bandaid to compensate for the alternative that they wouldn't be able to do if they didn't use them but wanted the same results.
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Old 09-27-2003, 11:23 PM   #5
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Because I wasn't able to get an appointment to install my new struts this week on my day off, I don't have my new Tokico HPs installed.

But, I installed the ST sway bars this morning. Took a total of 2 and a half hours total for both. So, I still have the Honda Accord LX OEM struts combined with a heavier front sway bar and a rear sway bar which didn't exist before. I was totally shocked at how light the front OEM sway bar is and how spongy the front end link bushings were. I guess it serves its purpose for the everyday driver.

So, I took it for a test ride after installation. I think I can get a better idea how my suspension has been improved by updated sway-bars because my new struts aren't on it yet. Smooth or slow driving were not any different. Sharp turns were nice. The car still rolled but to a lesser degree and the front tipped-in less. Then, I took the car at a medium-fast speed through one cloverleaf off-ramp and the car still rolled but to a much shorter angle. I took another off-ramp but faster. This time, the cloverleaf tightened up near the end so I had to compensate with a couple of sharper turns. Usually, one side of the car would dip in (or pitch forward and roll to the side) for every turn. This time, the entire car stayed at the same angle and for every turn, the whole car dipped down without changing angle (slight roll and no pitch). Very strange from what I am used to but excellent. ^_^
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