Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Automotive News Desk
Closed Thread Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-2002, 03:20 AM   #31
thrasher
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, to put it bluntly Devil, No, you are wrong. First off, A viper does not have a SOHC engine, it is OHV. This means that the engine block contains one overhead camshaft. SOHC means one camshaft per bank, which equals 2, and DOHC means 2 camshafts per bank, which equals 4. And yeah, 1 hp per ci might have cut it 20 years ago, but a decent engine makes much, much more than that. Let's look at a few examples.
1 Ferrari Enzo-366 CI=660HP 2 Aston Martin DB7-366 CI=414HP
3 Acura RSX-S-122 CI=200HP 4 Honda S2000-122 CI=240 HP
5 Nissan Max-213 CI=255HP 6 Acura TL-S-195 CI=260 HP
7 Porsche 911-219 CI=320HP 8 Toyota Celica GTS-109 CI=180HP
9 BMW M3-195 CI=333HP 10 Honda Accord EX-183 CI=240HP

You get the picture. And those aren't all even high performance vehicles, either. It is a commonly accepted fact that DOHC engines produce much more power than OHV, that is why more and more cars use them these days. American companies refuse to put them in some vehicles because it is much easier, not to mention cheaper to manufacture an engine that is much bigger with a lot less technology. I guarantee you that if a Viper engine (8.3 liter) was DOCH and was tuned to match European/Japanes specs, it could easily produce 800 hp.
I'm just saying that you have to look at reality here. Granted, a Viper has a lot of torque, but like I said, were it DOHC, it would have a whole h*ell of a lot more.
:bandit:
__________________


"Don't have sex man. It leads to kissing and pretty soon you have to start talking to them."
Steve Martin.
thrasher is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 05:15 AM   #32
blindwhite
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: cypres, California
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to blindwhite
Angry Re: jesus

Quote:
Originally posted by DeViL
You don't know what the hell you are talking about. Look at it this way, Chevrolet uses a 350 cubic inch engine, and the max horsepower they got out of the LS1 variation was 350 horsepower. The typical 427 of the 60's produced around 430 hp. Stop looking at it as Liters and look at it as cubic inches because liters seems to throw you people off. Only 500 hp out of 8 liters, what the hell do you mean only 500 hp. The engine is 500 cubic inches, and since most engines power doesn't go much above the ci of it, it should be around 500 hp. The engine isn't lacking anything at all so what are you complaining about. Keep in mind these engines are also single over head cam, a very basic V block and they can produce a lot more power then most of the DOHC engines you typically see on Japanese and European cars.

Sorry that this is off topic but its necessary.

Anyways lol I bet those 03 Vipers get their ass kicked by the Eclipses and the rest of the shit. I wouldn't be surprised with the attitude of "Super Rice Wing and NOS make me go Zoom, me go 1000 mph cuz me got 4 cylinder wheeee!!!". I'll just be in the theatre like...bullshit......bullshit.....bullshit......er rrr. Whats up with the pink S2000 though? I can understand it having a girl car that is pink, but damn they went all out, pink fuzzy seats and all wtf.


How many people forget that power doesn't come from engine size?
Do you work in Detroit?
You can make the engine bigger and stronger, but it may not be the strongest and win a race.


First, the speed of the car in relation to it's engine is nothing if it can't put the power straight to the floor. You may say that the bigger ci engine produces more torque, but TOO MUCH torque means burn out. Burn out means that the tires' surface area overlapping the ground below is skidding over the ground, not gripping. And for those who never took physics, Surface area or section width of the tire plays no role in increasing or decreasing friction between the tire and ground for friction is constant, it only allows weight to be transferred over a greater area and better cooling of the tires so that they may last longer. Although, it is proven that more, yet just enough, torque is needed to accelerate faster out of a corner - being that the car is AWD. There is an issue out there on the magazine stands that shows tests on this with a Subaru Imprezza WRX (AWD), Acura RSX (FWD), and a BMW 3 series (RWD). In addition, remember that there is more friction with the ground when the tire is rolling and not skidding, hence why they created Anti-Lock Braking Systems for shorter stopping distances.


Second, doesn't anyone know that there is a column of air over a 100 miles up through the atmosphere for every square inch of ground that your car rolls on? That whole column or air produces 14.7 psi! Now your say to yourself, "where have I heard psi before?". Turbo's and Superchargers(or Blowers to you ci loving hotrodders) is what you come up with. Yes, you think of that because they are related. Your normally aspirated larger cc engine may suck in A LOT more AIR in regards to VOLUME and in relation to an engine half your size; but, going back to that column of air producing 14.7 psi, the large displacement engine's cylinders do not completely fill up its volume with air at BDC to have a pressure equal to the atmospheric pressure of 14.7 because of friction and air restrictions along the intake track. That 14.7 is what an engine performance tech would also call the Stoichiometric ratio. For every 14.7 parts of air you add/mix one part of Hydrocarbon. Meaning to say, that unless you are getting EXACTLY 14.7 parts of air in a cylinder, you do not add 1 part of fuel. 14.7 psi measured in the cylinder is 100% Volumetric Efficiency. Anything less that is definitely NOT 100%.

Now, I'd estimate that the single camshaft V engine has a volumetric efficiency of only 8-10psi(i dunno, correct me if I'm wrong), but it is definitely not 14.7. And what if you took a car with that engine to near Colorado Springs and drive it up that hill climb? You take that 500(bhp?) Viper up that hill the best you can and you'll never beat the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo which happens to be the fastest so far to get up there.
Reason for your poor performance? Inefficiency and the fact that at the end of the race you were producing 90 less horsepower.

On the other hand, if you take the Skyline GT-R tuned to 500hp or more up that hill, then you'll make it up there faster then your previous trial with the Big Block, and probably with enough gas to beat the Big Block down the hill. Reason for this Skyline victory is because on it's way up the hill it maintained as close as possible it's Volumetric Efficiency. As a matter of fact, it doing 500+ hp says that it is doing more work than at 100% 14.7 psi. It may be taking in a volumetric efficiency of 25psi. 14.7 plus 14.7 is nearly 30psi. That's like having TWO engines IN ONE. No wonder the Small volume High performance DOHC engine is beating the Single V Big Block. Its working more to fill it's cylinders with air two times more than itself, and three times more than the Big Block. At the top of that hill, the Skyline will still be producing 500 hp because it's lungs are still drawing in 25 or so psi, as compared to the Big Block Single camshaft drawing in less.


Third, if you want to measure ci to hp ratios then here is your Final Thought. You say the Dodge Viper has an engine of 8 Litres. 8 times 61 is 488. That means the engine is 488 cubic inches. The horsepower is 500(bhp?). That leaves us with a ratio of 1.02 hp per cubic inch.
Now, the Skyline GT-R R34 has an engine of 2.6 Litres. 2.6 times 61 is 158. That gives us an engine that is 158 cubic inches. The horsepower at stock is 280. That my steel junkie is a a ratio of 1.77hp per cubic inch. Does 1.77 look larger than 1.02 to you on the real number line?
How about if we take the Skyline GT-R around the Vipers ballpark? 316 cubic inches with 500+ Horsepower. The 8 litre beating Skyline has a power to volume ratio of ATLEAST 1.58 hp per cubic inch. My numbers may be off, but it still shows that 1.58 is greater than 1.02.
(Thanks to thrasher for additional info on other cars producing more than 1.02 hp per cubic inch. DOHC helps intake fullfill better volumetric efficiency).

Sorry this is off topic but its necessary.

If you don't understand a word I said, then just think about one thing:

Formula One
3.0 litre V-10 producing 800 Horsepower at 18,000 RPM.

Or, just ask what is hard to comprehend and I'm sure someone here will answer.

:sun:
blindwhite is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 08:48 AM   #33
Fly Rice Racer
AF Enthusiast
 
Fly Rice Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Fly Rice Racer
Re: The Fast and The Furious 2 spy photos

Quote:
Originally posted by igor@af

This is so wierd. When I first saw the pic of the eclipse i swore that it was the same on I saw at Nopi Nationals.

It looks like a reverse paint job. What do ya'll think?


__________________
7th Generation Civic Forever
Mods:
- Tanabe Super Racing Medalion Exhaust System
- AEM Cold Air Intake(Blue)
- AEM Air Bypass Valve
- REVO Short Shifter V2
- Kumo Sport DirectShift Conversion Kit Bushings
- Neuspeed Front Upper X-Brace Strut Bar
- MOMO Crystal Shift Knob(blue)
- M3 Power Mirrors w/ Turn Signal
- Ignited Push Button Starter(Blue)
- Hyper Blinker Strobe V2
- Shaved Emblems
- Tinted windows 35% on sides and 20% in the rear
- Sound System: Sony M650 head unit, Kicker SL7 12" Solobaric, and a bridged Rockford Fosgate 360a2 amp.
- Dynamated Trunk

Next Mod:
- Kamikaze Header 4-1 w/ Straight Pipe
- Apex-i VAFC

Fly Rice Racer is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 10:56 AM   #34
RyanM
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: New Berlin, Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to RyanM Send a message via Yahoo to RyanM
wow. very nice!
RyanM is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 01:07 PM   #35
Midnight Racer
AF Enthusiast
 
Midnight Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,825
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to Midnight Racer
The cars look way better.Love the Skylines.
Midnight Racer is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 02:13 PM   #36
blindwhite
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: cypres, California
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to blindwhite
Thumbs up Mitsu paint jobs

Reason why they have backwards paint jobs is because they are two different cars of course.
The one on the tow truck looks more stock, but focus on the wheels and front bumper kit.

The one on the lawn has a different bumper and wheels.


I never comented on the movie yet......geez.
The movie better be good and not have a drag race consisting of over a hundred cars lining the street this time. o.0'
blindwhite is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 02:24 PM   #37
Fly Rice Racer
AF Enthusiast
 
Fly Rice Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 587
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Fly Rice Racer
I realize that they are two different cars, but it's just wierd that they have the EXACT same paint job. It makes me wonder if it is either a Mitsubishi paint job idea or if the owner at NOPI saw some pics of the FAF2 car and decided to copy it.

It was just funny to me that I had seen that car before.
__________________
7th Generation Civic Forever
Mods:
- Tanabe Super Racing Medalion Exhaust System
- AEM Cold Air Intake(Blue)
- AEM Air Bypass Valve
- REVO Short Shifter V2
- Kumo Sport DirectShift Conversion Kit Bushings
- Neuspeed Front Upper X-Brace Strut Bar
- MOMO Crystal Shift Knob(blue)
- M3 Power Mirrors w/ Turn Signal
- Ignited Push Button Starter(Blue)
- Hyper Blinker Strobe V2
- Shaved Emblems
- Tinted windows 35% on sides and 20% in the rear
- Sound System: Sony M650 head unit, Kicker SL7 12" Solobaric, and a bridged Rockford Fosgate 360a2 amp.
- Dynamated Trunk

Next Mod:
- Kamikaze Header 4-1 w/ Straight Pipe
- Apex-i VAFC

Fly Rice Racer is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 04:17 PM   #38
QuickSilverEF9
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 630
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to QuickSilverEF9
Fast and the Furious kurrupts

Half of the members on AF are only here because of that whack movie.... Just check out the 92+ civic forum (don't get me wrong there are some pretty tight civics in that forum but there is also too much rice to throw a chop stick at.) The fact that they will now be using one of my favorite cars in that lame film comes as a sharp stinge of pain to my heart. Skylines are to beautiful to have stickers of cheap american companys that don't even make parts for that car plastered on them. The Fast and the Furious brought a plethorem of recognition to the import scene... but alot of the recognition is derived from cheap work and the false knowledge derived from the movie. Why make a sequel to a movie that was a peice of shit in the first place? Just my 2 cents
__________________
1997 Golf GTI VR6
-Leather Interior
-47000 miles
-JVC KDSH707 Head Unit
ON THE WAY
-2xInfinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 components
-12" Polk Momo sub
-JBL 600.1 amp
Future
-Brock B2 deep dish wheels
-Suspension.....
QuickSilverEF9 is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 04:24 PM   #39
QuickSilverEF9
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 630
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to QuickSilverEF9
BTW I meant half the japanese car enthusiusts when I was speaking ill of the Fast and the Furious. (How much do those altezzas add? Like 10hp?)
__________________
1997 Golf GTI VR6
-Leather Interior
-47000 miles
-JVC KDSH707 Head Unit
ON THE WAY
-2xInfinity Kappa Perfect 6.1 components
-12" Polk Momo sub
-JBL 600.1 amp
Future
-Brock B2 deep dish wheels
-Suspension.....
QuickSilverEF9 is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 04:40 PM   #40
markpa
AF Fanatic
 
markpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,810
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Fast and the Furious kurrupts

Quote:
Originally posted by QuickSilverEF9
Why make a sequel to a movie that was a peice of shit in the first place? Just my 2 cents
Why make a sequel well cause the first one made a shit load off money.
markpa is offline  
Old 10-12-2002, 10:43 PM   #41
mhpspeed
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 443
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to mhpspeed
i just wanted to add that if this movie is like the first those cars engines will be comppletly stock except for a 4 inch exhaust to get a deep throaty sound. So those stickers will be on there only for looks, not because there on the car.
mhpspeed is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 01:40 AM   #42
8ate8
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middletown, New Jersey
Posts: 825
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to 8ate8 Send a message via AIM to 8ate8
god you people arguing over the viper.. shut it.. if chrysler wanted a dinky little dohc 6cyl, they'd put it in another car.. the viper lives up to the muscle genre. a big ass engine making a butt load of torque.. that was it's main intent.. not to see how scientific they can get with the engine to pump out massive hp/l.
__________________

1996 Thunderbird LX 3.8L
1993 Thunderbird SC 3.8L
2000 Cherokee Sport 4.0L
2005 Tacoma X-Runner
Jersey Rice
NJ Thunderbird & Cougar Club
8ate8 is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 01:51 AM   #43
Fliquer
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 930
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Fliquer
Ok enough import/domestic bashing. They both have their strongpoints. Imports have engineering, domestics have perfomance-per-dollar. 'Nuff said

Anyway, I am hella disappointed that one of the main cars is not a WRX, but then again, that orange 240 is lookin mighty good.
__________________
Isitcontagious.com
'92 S13 coupe
KYB adjustable struts + Whiteline springs
Urethane bushings in all control arms and subframe
Cone Filter
Next up: LSD

RIP #05
Fliquer is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 04:54 AM   #44
blindwhite
AF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: cypres, California
Posts: 34
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to blindwhite
Yay



Right on Fliquer! :smoker2:

and WRX is bad ass engineering-for-the-buck, hehe
the performer on stage
blindwhite is offline  
Old 10-13-2002, 09:35 AM   #45
RyanGiorgio
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Exeter, Rhode Island
Posts: 2,838
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to RyanGiorgio Send a message via MSN to RyanGiorgio
FnF2 Cars

If any of you are subscribe to Super Street magazine, last months issue featured Craig Leiberman's new car (owner of FnF1 supra). It is a 1999 Nissan Skyline, and in the article, it is said to be the next FnF2 main car. Check it out at: http://www.moviecarz.com
RyanGiorgio is offline  
 
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tuned.com's Fast and Furious Release Party and Car Show April 3rd and 4th HotCtyPlaya North East 2 03-28-2009 04:32 PM
spec list on the three black honda civics in the fast and the furious Mr.MegaRicer Let's get Technical! 45 07-04-2004 12:12 PM
For anyone who liked the black charger from The Fast and The Furious DJ_Merle Car Modeling 4 02-12-2004 08:58 PM
The Cars of The Fast And The Furious larrygre Car Modeling 13 08-09-2003 05:24 PM
what colors does the fast and the furious supra need for the inside xtreme8799 Car Modeling 1 05-08-2003 11:28 PM

Closed Thread

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD


Bookmarks
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Automotive News Desk

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 PM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts