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Old 06-13-2003, 02:25 PM   #1
2strokebloke
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Question ZMW to come in 2005.

Recently I was directed to the ZMW (Zastava Motor Works) website to "new" information about the release of ZMW cars to the U.S.
It appears that they have revised their prices and their introduction year. Previously the cars were supposed to be here late in 2003, now they're coming in 2005. The prices have also been nudged up, to the $7000 to $15,000 range.
There are no actual pictures of the cars on the website now, just drawings of what these models will supposedly (but hopefully not) look like when they arrive in 2005.
If Bricklin gets this thing going, now with Daewoo out of the way I think that there's a good chance Zastava will succeed this time around. But I've also heard from sources in Serbia (formerly Yugoslavia) that Bricklin has been stalling alot, so I'm not certain as to whether or not the ZMW cars will ever become a reality.
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Old 06-17-2003, 06:00 AM   #2
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ROFL!!!!!! You por barstards- as if one round of Yugos weren't enough- the Yugo is back for a second What is the latest Yugo a shameless re-badging of?
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Old 06-17-2003, 03:54 PM   #3
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Apparently just re-engineered 45's and Sanas - and a restyled cabrio with a new engine. Also I've heard that Zastava has dropped the FIAT designed engines, and that Peugeot's engines will be powering the new vehicles when they come to the U.S.
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Old 06-18-2003, 01:36 PM   #4
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Re: ZMW to come in 2005.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke
...now with Daewoo out of the way I think that there's a good chance Zastava will succeed this time around....
C'mon! I'm all for additional automotive choice in any market, especially the US market. But do you really think that Daewoo was direct competition for these cars?

Daewoos were relatively high-quality cars compared to ZMWs...if they're anything like the previous Yugos. For the price of these new ZMWs, you could get a Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio, or (possibly) Chevrolet Aveo. The first two come with a 10-year warranty...and the last one comes with a dealer network about 4,000 strong.

ZMW's biggest problem will be marketing a low-quality product in a market where the lowest-quality product is about on-par with the average car of just a few years back. Brands like Mini and Hummer must be so happy to add ZMW to the North American market place to move themselves up from the basement in JD Powers' surveys.

Believe me...I'll be among the first to drive a ZMW when they arrive.
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Old 06-18-2003, 06:19 PM   #5
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Whoa there Hudson! Don't even put Yugo down to the level of the Hummer!
Believe it or not, some companies were really scared when the Yugo came out last time - GM I've heard even sponsered a "smear campaign" and paid journalists to give the car a bad review.
It wasn't a matter of quality or reliability with the former Yugos (the NHTSA rated the Yugo in the top 3% for reliability) in fact Yugo would've remained in the U.S. had Clinton not have put an Embargo on Yugoslavia - back when NATO did more harm than good to that country!
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Old 06-18-2003, 06:49 PM   #6
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ZMW, Meet NHTSA

Has ZMW figured out how to get their cars approved by NHTSA? Its not imposible, expensive of course, but not imposible.
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Old 06-18-2003, 07:25 PM   #7
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The project is being led by Malcom Bricklin who has imported cars to the U.S. before (Subaru and Yugo) so I'm sure he knows how - but I don't know whether or not he's recieved approval yet.
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Old 06-18-2003, 11:29 PM   #8
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Odd that you blame Clinton for Yugo not being in the US market...since Yugo America ceased operation BEFORE he took office.

And just because Bricklin was able to bring cars into compliance in the late 1960s and mid 1980s doesn't mean he'll be able to bring an ancient Serbo-Franco-Italian vehicle up to legal levels. You haven't been snowed that Bricklin was a completely honest businessman, have you?

On the Yugo's reliability...if you can provide anyplace where NHTSA has praised the car's reliability, please let me know where I can see it.
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Old 06-19-2003, 01:06 PM   #9
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But you're forgetting that after Bricklin's operation Yugo America went bankrupt in 1989; Zastava handled imports itself and cars continued being sold until 1991 - the year I believe the embargo was put into place. (or maybe it was 1992, I can't remember so well now)

There's a book called the Used Car Reliability and Safety Guide (or something very close to that - 2nd edition) It gave out ratings for reliability based on complaints sent to the NHTSA about accidents caused by mechanical failures in vehicles - so everything from stalling in traffic to faulty brakes was considered. And Yugo scored amongst the best.
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Old 06-19-2003, 11:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke
But you're forgetting that after Bricklin's operation Yugo America went bankrupt in 1989; Zastava handled imports itself and cars continued being sold until 1991 - the year I believe the embargo was put into place. (or maybe it was 1992, I can't remember so well now)
I didn't forget that...but if it was 1991 or 1992....it wouldn't matter because the Clinton Administration didn't begin until January 1993, which was my point.
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Old 06-20-2003, 01:17 PM   #11
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You are correct - I got my events out of order. Yugo left in the early 90's because Yugoslavia was in the midst of having a civil war. After that came the embargo - and then NATO bombed the Zastava factory, because apart from the Yugo Zastava also manufacures weapons.
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Old 06-21-2003, 06:26 AM   #12
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You can't honestly tell me with a straight face that interior plastics of the latest Yugos would be anywhere near on par with a Kia Rio- yet alone anything Japanese- also I'd think that Yugos can only get worse- as Serbia has been hit wit MUCH harder financial times than 1988-91 so factory workmanship can only be poorer- sorry- but to think that ZMW has a credible chance is pushing the boundaries too far.
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Old 06-21-2003, 08:07 PM   #13
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Well, I'm uncertain too - but I seriously think that these cars will be more more marketable than the last Yugos sold here. Last time, cars came in for testing and evaulation 1984 - by august 1985, Yugos were on sale. This time, they're spending alot more time and money to make these cars - and the factory where the cars are built (but I don't know about the rest of Zastava) I've heard is being privatized. Last time they paid workers making the American bound cars higher wages than the other workers, and this improved quality at least a little. Also, the engines are not going to be built by Zastava this time either - I've heard most likely that Peugeot is going to supply the engines, so at least these cars will be as reliable as the French can make them
But at least those engines will be more powerfull than the 1100cc ones we got last time! There are a lot of differences in how these cars are going to be made this time, I think that they may very well have a chance.
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Old 06-23-2003, 11:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke
...But at least those engines will be more powerfull than the 1100cc ones we got last time! There are a lot of differences in how these cars are going to be made this time, I think that they may very well have a chance.
They need to have "a lot of differences" and "more powerful" engines just to compete. When Yugo arrived in August 1985, their (new product) competition was from the Chevrolet Sprint and Chevette, and the Omni/Horizon twins. The Yugo undercut them in price by thousands and were competing more with used cars than new cars.

Today, the Koreans have established a sizeable market share of the basic transportation segments with reliable, relatively high-quality, good pieces of transportation. Just selling a French-powered, Serbian-built car at a similar price isn't going to find the market as forgiving as it did 18 years ago. In 2001, the Kia Rio sold about what the Yugo did in its best year. Add in another 80,000 Hyundai Accents, 42,000 Toyota Echos, and 78,000 Spectra/Sephias and the ZMW will find it tough to compete.

That "more powerful" engine being supplied is only part of the cost of entry into the US market. The Kia Rio, as lowly as that car is, produces 96hp. Aside from the TDI VWs (at 90hp) and the 70hp Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, nobody sells a lower power car in the US. Unless the ZMW is expected to compete with the mileage of the diesels or hybrids or with the quality of a Kia (including a 10 year warranty), I don't offer much hope for the ZMW if it were to actually enter the US market.

Bricklin may have brought cars into the US in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, but it's a tougher (based on modern regulations and Asian competition) market today. How many cars and trucks have you heard of that were coming to the US market in the past decade...yet never sold one unit? Many with more finanical backing than Bricklin could have.

I've followed Bricklin's career since the 1960s. I've been impressed with some of the things he's accomplished. But this one will be a tough nut to crack. I'll bet against ZMW being successful.
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Old 06-23-2003, 02:17 PM   #15
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When I first heard of the project I had serious doubts that the cars would even make it to the U.S. Now I've changed my mind, I think that they'll most likely make it here, though I'm not quite sure that they'll succeed. I think that they'll have a good chance - but it's still just a chance.
And about Bricklin himself, if you take a look at how he handled Subaru back in the 1960's and then how he took care of the Yugo in the 80's, you'll see that he learned quite a bit about selling cars between the two. Even so, although the Yugo dealer network was infinitely better that Subaru's was in the 1960's, it was still not on par with any other manufacturer's in the 1980s. I'm hoping that he learned enough from Yugo's dealer short comings to give people decent service this time around with ZMW. (Truthfully, I'm more worried about this than I am about the actual vehicles he's going to import)
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