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Old 02-01-2004, 07:30 PM   #1
crosscypher
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Unhappy No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires


Hi everyone,
Very new to this forum, but I see alot of good informatin. I tried to search the posts before I posted, so maybe I could get an answer to my question.
We bought a 96 Eclipse RS yesterday, and today while drive (to the auto parts store of all places) the car simply turn off, while driving right down the highyway at 55mph. After pushing it to the side out of the way from everyone else, we tried uneventfully to start it. I was checking the plug wires, and found that the plug wires were not receiving any spark. sO luckily we were right across from the auto parts store, I walked over and bought a new coil pack (I think thats the correct term to use .) I put that on, but still no spark. I did notice the day we bought it that the battery light and the CE light stayed on, but the car still ran fine. Guess we should have just stopped right there and start troubleshooting. Butto make a long story short, the "coil pack" didn't help. The car will turn over but no spark seems to be getting to the plug wires thru the "coil pack". I need everyone's in this because we really need to get my car running. I am not the perfect mechanic by any means, but I can follow directions pretty well. Any suggestion would be highly valuable.

Thanks everyone
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:13 PM   #2
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so the coil pack is not even producing spark? do you have fuel in the cylinders? more info would be nice please, but if you dont have fuel or spark check your Cam Angle Sensor (CAS)
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:47 PM   #3
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i replaced the coil pack and still the same problem. are you supposed to be able to hear an audible sound from the fuel pump? also when i turn the key to the on position, the check engine light does not come on. to answer your question i do not think that fuel nor spark is getting to the engine. the car does "turn over" but does not start.

i do recall this morning when we were trying to start the car, that it hesitated a few times and cut off a couples times before we were actually able to get it going. after that it ran fine until it died. when we were at the parts store, they hooked up the diagnostic comp, but we were only able to get a transmission control failure code. is there any other info i can give in assisting you in helping with this problem?

is a CAS the same thing as a cam positioning sensor, sorry for sounding redundant but the parts shop asked me.

Thanks for any and all of your help
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:45 AM   #4
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Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Yes that is what a cas is. And thanks for a well put together well written post by the way For that alone I feel inclined to help you in any way I can. Unfortunately my experience is in the turbo cars. But it is well worth the effort to replace the plugs. A dying coil pack or wire can cause some build up on the corresponding plug. Be sure they are gapped appropriately. One bad plug or wire wouldnt keep the engine from running though, so the next step would be the CAS. Again, I dont know how that works on the NT cars, but on the turbo cars no CAS signal equals no spark or fuel. Can you smell fuel at the exhaust outlet after cranking for a while? If you pull the plugs after some cranking check to see if they are wet or the cylinders seem to be getting fuel. I had a CAS die on me and the car just quit. It would start randomly, sometimes stayig on for a bit, sometimes sputtering and dying right away. I also didnt get a CEL or code for it either. When its cranking does it seem to have compression, or does it crank quickly with little resistance. A compression test could be in order. If the tbelt shit the bed or jumped you can often see it in a cpompression test. The tool is 25 bucks at most autoparts stores. It could also be the ECU, though thats less likely than the other options. The trouble is there are so many things that can cause this, which makes it very hard to trouble shoot this in person, never mind over the internet
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:19 AM   #5
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Re: Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer
Yes that is what a cas is. And thanks for a well put together well written post by the way For that alone I feel inclined to help you in any way I can. Unfortunately my experience is in the turbo cars. But it is well worth the effort to replace the plugs. A dying coil pack or wire can cause some build up on the corresponding plug. Be sure they are gapped appropriately. One bad plug or wire wouldnt keep the engine from running though, so the next step would be the CAS. Again, I dont know how that works on the NT cars, but on the turbo cars no CAS signal equals no spark or fuel. Can you smell fuel at the exhaust outlet after cranking for a while? If you pull the plugs after some cranking check to see if they are wet or the cylinders seem to be getting fuel. I had a CAS die on me and the car just quit. It would start randomly, sometimes stayig on for a bit, sometimes sputtering and dying right away. I also didnt get a CEL or code for it either. When its cranking does it seem to have compression, or does it crank quickly with little resistance. A compression test could be in order. If the tbelt shit the bed or jumped you can often see it in a cpompression test. The tool is 25 bucks at most autoparts stores. It could also be the ECU, though thats less likely than the other options. The trouble is there are so many things that can cause this, which makes it very hard to trouble shoot this in person, never mind over the internet
I do not believe that any spark is even coming from the coil pack to get to the plug wires, and in turn to get to the spark plugs. I am not sure, but I usually can hear (in other cars) the fuel pump priming. Now maybe in the eclipse, they are difficult to hear, but if they are normally heard, I can't hear the fuel pump priming. So, if I am not receiving spark nor fuel, then where might I trace the problem to? The CAS? if that is the case, then I believe they sell one at my local AutoZone for $69.99. The irony is this situation is that I am awaiting in the mail our Chilton's books and Shop Manuals, which is kind of terrible given the situation. I was also told to look at the relays under the windshield cowl, on the driver's side. I was told to check those for corrosion or moiture, and yet I found neither when I inspected them. So this looks like I am at a bit of a stalemate, but we desperatly need to figure out the situation, as of right now, this is our only means of transportation. Thank you for any and all of your help.
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:53 PM   #6
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Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

The fuel pump will not "prime" until you are cranking the motor. Thats why you cant hear it. You can hotwire the pump (or force it on with a scan tool, on 2g at least) to make sure its there. If you are sure its not getting spark I would be looking at CAS number one, and ECU number 2.

Remove the cas from the valvecover/head. With the key in the on position rotate it and see if you hear the injectors firing and see a spark plug sparking. If nothing is happening there is something wrong with the CAS, connector, etc. If you are getting the injectors but not the plugs, the CAS is fine. I would suspect the coil pack, ignitor, or ECU, in that order. The ignitor has the long connector on it, bolted to the manifold on the turbo cars at least.
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Old 02-02-2004, 11:57 PM   #7
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Re: Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer
The fuel pump will not "prime" until you are cranking the motor. Thats why you cant hear it. You can hotwire the pump (or force it on with a scan tool, on 2g at least) to make sure its there. If you are sure its not getting spark I would be looking at CAS number one, and ECU number 2.

Remove the cas from the valvecover/head. With the key in the on position rotate it and see if you hear the injectors firing and see a spark plug sparking. If nothing is happening there is something wrong with the CAS, connector, etc. If you are getting the injectors but not the plugs, the CAS is fine. I would suspect the coil pack, ignitor, or ECU, in that order. The ignitor has the long connector on it, bolted to the manifold on the turbo cars at least.

I hooked up a voltage meter to the plug wire (seemed like a good idea) and had a helper turn the key in the ignition to see if any voltage was going to the spark plugs, none... tried hooking the same meter up to the connector that feeds the coilpack, and tried the same, and still nothing. Haven't tried the CAS, really worried about tring that sensor, because i have heard that you have reset your timing once you remove and reinstall that sensor (even if it is not the problem). Would the relays, on the driver's side under the windshield cowl, pertain to this problem? Wouldn't the park plugs get a little wet with fuel if you kept turning they key over? Just a thought, because they were as dry as a bone. Also, the CAS on this engine looks quite new for being an engine w/134,000 miles on it. Just a though, because when I look at the wires leading to the CAS, I see a specific section that looks like it was spliced and then costed with a liquid plastuc and then coated again with a rubber sleeve. So I was questioning that too. Does anyone have a wring diagram of the ignition system of this gen 2 eclipse? Not sure how helpful it would be, but maybe I could trace the wires and try and find a short.

Another thing I thought I would mention, The check engine light that usually always comes on when they key is turned(along with the others, i.e battery, seatbelt, SRS, and oil light) does not come on at all now. I have heard of doing the keydance, but when I made several attempts at it, I had no success.

Any ideas? Besides getting a Haynes or Chiltons of course.
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Old 02-03-2004, 01:49 AM   #8
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Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Just scribe a mark on the cAS and head, so when you reinstall it you can put it back where it was. Odds are its set wrong anyway But that will make that easy. I'm still going to say that its 90% CAS and 10% ECU as the likely causes.
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Old 02-03-2004, 01:57 AM   #9
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Re: Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer
Just scribe a mark on the cAS and head, so when you reinstall it you can put it back where it was. Odds are its set wrong anyway But that will make that easy. I'm still going to say that its 90% CAS and 10% ECU as the likely causes.
What exactly am I rotating, when I take the CAS off?
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:10 AM   #10
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Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

THere is a piece on the cAS that goes into the end of the cam. The cam roatates this piece. Just do it by hand. Looking at the small piece, you should rotate it clockwise, if it even matters. There is a notch in the small piece, and a dot on the housing. Line htem up when you resintall it, with the motor at TDC on cyl one. Or note the way it was when you took it out. Dont be afraid to write on it with a marker or something. THe key must be "on." You'll hear the stuff clicking, and the pump priming if the CAS and eCU are good.
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Old 02-03-2004, 01:31 PM   #11
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Re: Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer
THere is a piece on the cAS that goes into the end of the cam. The cam roatates this piece. Just do it by hand. Looking at the small piece, you should rotate it clockwise, if it even matters. There is a notch in the small piece, and a dot on the housing. Line htem up when you resintall it, with the motor at TDC on cyl one. Or note the way it was when you took it out. Dont be afraid to write on it with a marker or something. THe key must be "on." You'll hear the stuff clicking, and the pump priming if the CAS and eCU are good.
I'm sorry, but when I take the CAS off, i see a circular object, and when I try to turn it by hand, it won't budge. I am afraid to try it wi a screwdriver, I wouldn't want to break anything
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Old 02-04-2004, 04:13 AM   #12
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Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

You should see a flat piece that goes into the slot in the end of teh intake cam. This is a 90 right?
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Old 02-04-2004, 09:40 AM   #13
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Re: Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95 GSXracer
You should see a flat piece that goes into the slot in the end of teh intake cam. This is a 90 right?
1996 RS N/T 2.0 auto
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Old 02-04-2004, 06:01 PM   #14
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Re: No Spark at the Coil Pack/no spark to the plug wires

DAmn I must have confused this thread with the other 15 on the topic. I could have sowrn you had a 90. In this case youre on your own. Or you'll have to help me out a bit. Where is the cas on those cars? On the 2g turbo cars its behind the cam gear and there is a trigger plate on the gear, just like the crank angle sensor. Does the 2g NT have both sensors, or just one like the 1Gs?
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