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Old 03-08-2003, 12:41 PM   #16
2strokebloke
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Talking O.K. sure!

"That might have something to do only having two cylinders. An extra couple cylinders can do wonders for the smoothness of an engine, and for the sound it makes as well."

You've done a great job showing your ignorance of the 2-stroke cycle.
A two cylinder 2-stroke engine has the same smoothness of torque as a 4 cylinder - 4stroke engine. You're forgetting that in 2-stroke engines EVERY downstroke is a power stroke! and there are no wasteful strokes dedicated entirely to exhaust or intake.


"I can rebuild a 924 engine in two hours, and when I put it back together again, it will make more than 30hp! :P"

That may be so, but can you rebuild the engine while it's still in the car? Or change the head gasket in five minutes?
With the trabant, one never has to worry about burnt exhaust valves(gak!) or sticking valves (double gak!), out of adjustment valves, or any stupid poppet valves at all.

"You still have to mix the oil and the gas, every time you fill up."

It's easier to dump a couple quarts of oil into the gas tank, than it is to drain four quarts from the oil sump, replace an oil filter, make a mess, and have to refill the crankcase - over and over and over.

"I think Porsche is much more distinctive, given 50 years of breaking the sports car mold, again and again, with successively better models. The Trabant, on the other hand, falls in the same boat as the rest of the automotive monstrosities that should have never seen the light of day."

And here I thought these forums would be LESS yuppie than those at cartalk - what was I thinking?
If the trabant is bad, don't forget to throw all those other cars in there, like say the SAAB models 92-96, everything 2-stroke DKW made, the Honda N600 and N360, the Suzulight fronte.

In fact, just throw ALL front wheel drive cars in there, because every single one of them is related to the Trabant - through DKW of course.
The BMC mini is wrongly credited by many as being the first front wheel drive car with a transverse mounted engine - which is wrong. DKW mass produced the first front wheel drive cars with transverse engines, more than three decades before the mini ever saw the light of day.
Those DKW macines - they were 2-cylinder 2-stroke powered - like the Trabant - and are related closley. It's known that SAAB copied the prewar DKW design (after all the 92, was a 2-cylinder 2-stroke front wheel drive car) and that Honda and Suzuki too copied DKW with 2-cylinder front wheel drive cars (4-stroke engine for the honda).
The trabant is not a copy though, but a descendant of those original DKW cars, giving it an important and interesting place in Automotive history.

If I had the choice between a yuppie porsche and a Trabant, I'd take the trabant, it's funner to drive and gets more looks too.

Thanks.
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Old 03-09-2003, 07:10 PM   #17
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Re: O.K. sure!

Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke
"That might have something to do only having two cylinders. An extra couple cylinders can do wonders for the smoothness of an engine, and for the sound it makes as well."

You've done a great job showing your ignorance of the 2-stroke cycle.
A two cylinder 2-stroke engine has the same smoothness of torque as a 4 cylinder - 4stroke engine. You're forgetting that in 2-stroke engines EVERY downstroke is a power stroke! and there are no wasteful strokes dedicated entirely to exhaust or intake.
I'm aware of how 2 stroke engines work, I was commenting on how a 2 cylinder engine is not exceptionally smooth at the best of times

Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke

"I can rebuild a 924 engine in two hours, and when I put it back together again, it will make more than 30hp! :P"

That may be so, but can you rebuild the engine while it's still in the car? Or change the head gasket in five minutes?
With the trabant, one never has to worry about burnt exhaust valves(gak!) or sticking valves (double gak!), out of adjustment valves, or any stupid poppet valves at all.
If you own a 924, you're well acquainted with the process of replacing head gaskets, and are probably quite proficient at it

If you build an engine right, you should never have to worry about any of the things you've mentioned.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke

"You still have to mix the oil and the gas, every time you fill up."

It's easier to dump a couple quarts of oil into the gas tank, than it is to drain four quarts from the oil sump, replace an oil filter, make a mess, and have to refill the crankcase - over and over and over.
I disagree, you have to keep in mind the gasoline to oil ration, where with the Porsche, you simply have to drain the oil and change the filter. I have a fitting that attaches to a hose to change the oil, and it works quite well, the whole job is done in 15 minutes, and most of that is taken up by having a beer and reading a magazine while the oil is draining.

No mess, just have to be under the car for 5 minutes, and that's a great time to look around for leaks, check axle play, etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2strokebloke

"I think Porsche is much more distinctive, given 50 years of breaking the sports car mold, again and again, with successively better models. The Trabant, on the other hand, falls in the same boat as the rest of the automotive monstrosities that should have never seen the light of day."

And here I thought these forums would be LESS yuppie than those at cartalk - what was I thinking?
If the trabant is bad, don't forget to throw all those other cars in there, like say the SAAB models 92-96, everything 2-stroke DKW made, the Honda N600 and N360, the Suzulight fronte.

In fact, just throw ALL front wheel drive cars in there, because every single one of them is related to the Trabant - through DKW of course.
The BMC mini is wrongly credited by many as being the first front wheel drive car with a transverse mounted engine - which is wrong. DKW mass produced the first front wheel drive cars with transverse engines, more than three decades before the mini ever saw the light of day.
Those DKW macines - they were 2-cylinder 2-stroke powered - like the Trabant - and are related closley. It's known that SAAB copied the prewar DKW design (after all the 92, was a 2-cylinder 2-stroke front wheel drive car) and that Honda and Suzuki too copied DKW with 2-cylinder front wheel drive cars (4-stroke engine for the honda).
The trabant is not a copy though, but a descendant of those original DKW cars, giving it an important and interesting place in Automotive history.

If I had the choice between a yuppie porsche and a Trabant, I'd take the trabant, it's funner to drive and gets more looks too.

Thanks.
It makes me a yuppie to love Porsches? I'd think you would be able to appreciate the completely different flavour of car that Porsche has brought to the world.

I'm a sports car guy mostly, I like RWD cars for their superior handling balance, but this doesn't mean I don't like FWD cars. I like all cars, with the exception of the Trabant. Say what you will, that car offends me. I'm sure Hitler would have let the Americans overrun him in the west if he had known that the Trabant would be the eastern European equivalent of the Volkswagen.
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Old 03-09-2003, 07:42 PM   #18
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Your 924 is related to the Trabant!

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the 924 was originally an Audi project, and when it went into production under the Porsche name, it used some Audi parts.
Now Audi, and Horch (same founder) after the war found their factories in East Germany. DKW relocated to West Germany to resume production. The Trabant 601 (which is the model you apparently take offense to) was built in the old Horch factories.
Now of course the 601 was DKW in spirit, and also in layout - 2-stroke, front wheel drive etc. basically an evolved design of the prewar DKW.
In 1964 VW bought a majority stock in DKW and renamed DKW Audi, and Audi of course was responsible in part for the 924 - there you have it, Trabi blood taints that of porsche, by way of DKW.
My theory is that DKW can somehow be connected with every modern car being produced today.

But seriously, you still haven't actually answered my question of why you dislike one of Germany's greatest vehicles.
PS: it becomes habbit to put in the proper oil ratio, and it takes only seconds to do, unlike an oil change. Never mind, what am I thinking? alot of gas stations in East Germany had premix available from the pump, one mix for the Wartburg, and one mix for the Trabant, as they used different oil ratios - so I guess the entire trouble of oil was elimintated for these owners.
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Old 03-15-2003, 09:49 AM   #19
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Well, you still haven't presented any reason for your dislike of the Trabant 601, so I'm lead to believe that you dislike it because it falls outside the boundaries of your sphere of conformity.
People usually dislike what is different or unusual even if they don't have any other good reason - stranger still that this is coming from somebody who thinks that Porsche is a "completely different flavour" of car.
over 3 million trabants sold, and you don't think it's a great car?

Don't think that the East Germans had only this one choice, of the domestic made cars there was the Trabant and the Wartburg, with a waiting period of 12 and 18 years for delivery respectively. They could have bought other cars with shorter waiting periods, and cars that cost less - but they chose the Trabant, so there was competition, the Trabant even became popular in countries outside of East Germany too. Simply thinking that the so many Trabants were produced because the East Germans had no other choice for a car is wrong.
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Old 03-15-2003, 09:40 PM   #20
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my grampa had one of those trabant's in the first post for over a decade. old weak car, but it was reliable and good enough to take it out on the croatian countryside every now n then (more rough terain)

i dunno why so many guys diss these cars... they were the economy classed cars back in the old yugo-communist days and they got ppl from point a-b. they were never made to grab attention or do 10 second quater miles.

so stop ripping gay jokes about em, and just get over it.
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Old 03-16-2003, 08:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 2strokebloke

"You still have to mix the oil and the gas, every time you fill up."

It's easier to dump a couple quarts of oil into the gas tank, than it is to drain four quarts from the oil sump, replace an oil filter, make a mess, and have to refill the crankcase - over and over and over.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I disagree, you have to keep in mind the gasoline to oil ration, where with the Porsche, you simply have to drain the oil and change the filter. I have a fitting that attaches to a hose to change the oil, and it works quite well, the whole job is done in 15 minutes, and most of that is taken up by having a beer and reading a magazine while the oil is draining.

No mess, just have to be under the car for 5 minutes, and that's a great time to look around for leaks, check axle play, etc.
dont get me wrong, i'd stick my head under a porsche anyday.
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Old 03-17-2003, 12:41 AM   #22
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wow this is a great arguement. im gunna have to go against you though cbass.i would like to have a trabi just for shits and giggles but i would take the 914 over it and then the 924 over that and the 944 over that and the 928 over that and then the 968 then the 356 over that then 911's galore...not including all the badass race cars. well i just listed my likeing of porsche's in order

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Old 06-12-2004, 08:10 AM   #23
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Re: Yugo VS Trabi

the look and the lack of power is a good start
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Old 06-29-2004, 07:55 AM   #24
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Talking

Yeah Trabi rocks I personally had couple of those and now I just keep my Cabrio. Love it everybody looks at you and it is a great car. 45mpg is not to bad but I'm getting easy 60mpg. And they are not all 2 stroke, they also came with a VW engine with 45-60hp and 1100ccm one of them has been also posted, you can see it on the grill.
Got to love the trabi evenso you had to wait 12 years for the new one. hehe
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Old 11-03-2004, 02:20 PM   #25
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Re: Yugo VS Trabi

I'm going to see about having my Uncle in Germany find me a Trabbi to import next year - should be fun!
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