A Pontiac Grand AM GT to a tC?

[BadMrFrosty]

Greetings, I've had my grand am GT for about 3 years now the warranty is gone and i've had issues of every sort with my car. The car is beautiful its a very nice car, fast.. v6, whatever but i'm thinking about dumping it.. I dont really want to 'trade down' though, would a tC be trading down from a Grand AM GT?

BMF

[Bossman]

Go for it.....you'll love the tC.

[TheQuietThings]

the grand am gt is not faster than the tC, ive raced one, and beat it, with a passenger in my car, AND the Grand Am had a chip. a toyota will never give you a problem and itll hold its value much better. get the tC you will not great it.

ive driven both cars, and i have a tC, so at least youre getting a hands on review here lol

[LTZ2FLIP4]

tC

hp 160@5700
torque 163@4000
weight 2970

Grand Am GT

hp 175 hp @4800rpm
torque 205@ 4000
weight 3091lbs.s

Now in noway am I GA fan. My gf has one and my aunt has one, nothing but problems. But based on your stupid street racing story, TheQuietThings, thats no way to judge how fast cars are. Coulda been some geeky 16 yr old who just got his license and doesnt know how to drive or a number of other factors.

Based on the above #s it appears that the cars would be pretty equal. The GA is 121 lbs heavier but makes up for it with 15 more hp and almost 1/4 more torque. Plus the Scions powerband is way higher so it take longer to get up to maximum power.

Id say test drive both, since you already own the GA test drive a tC without a dealership person in the car, and push the car to see how it performs to your GA.

[TheQuietThings]

Originally Posted by LTZ2FLIP4

tC

hp 160@5700
torque 163@4000
weight 2970

Grand Am GT

hp 175 hp @4800rpm
torque 205@ 4000
weight 3091lbs.s

Now in noway am I GA fan. My gf has one and my aunt has one, nothing but problems. But based on your stupid street racing story, TheQuietThings, thats no way to judge how fast cars are. Coulda been some geeky 16 yr old who just got his license and doesnt know how to drive or a number of other factors.

Based on the above #s it appears that the cars would be pretty equal. The GA is 121 lbs heavier but makes up for it with 15 more hp and almost 1/4 more torque. Plus the Scions powerband is way higher so it take longer to get up to maximum power.

Id say test drive both, since you already own the GA test drive a tC without a dealership person in the car, and push the car to see how it performs to your GA.

they were both automatics.
stop judging cars off numbers.

[LTZ2FLIP4]

they were both automatics.
stop judging cars off numbers.

Oh ya, like your way of biased judging is any better.........

Maybe if you havent noticed, most every magazine or any other form of rating a car is done by their numbers or stats, not street racing with amatuers behind the wheel.

[TheQuietThings]

Originally Posted by LTZ2FLIP4

Oh ya, like your way of biased judging is any better.........

Maybe if you havent noticed, most every magazine or any other form of rating a car is done by their numbers or stats, not street racing with amatuers behind the wheel.

its not biased, its what actually happened.
if im telling you, that my AUTO tC beat the AUTO pontiac, wether or not we are amatuers has nothing to do with it.

numbers mean nothing until you actually hit the road.

bro, why are you arguing with me? this is incredibly stupid

[DigitalQuirk]

What TheQuietThings failed to tell us was that the Grand Am GT he raced was built in 1992, had a slipping transmission, and when he said it had a chip, he meant it had a Frito Lays chip clogging the air filter.

The Scion tC is definitely a move down in class from the Grand Am GT. With a 5 speed and a good driver hammering through the gears, it can do 0-60 in around 7.8 seconds, which is very close to the Grand Am GT's 7.7 seconds...though neither of these cars are hardly fast when compared to, say, a GTO or Neon SRT-4. There's no way you're going to see even an 8 second 0-60 time with the Scion tC and an automatic. Plus, once you start hauling other people around with you in your car, you're really going to miss that extra torque.

Of course, there's more to a car than its raw 0-60 time. There's handling, and the Scion isn't going to outhandle a Grand Am GT. The stopping distance of the Grand Am GT is shorter than that of the Scion tC. Then there's features, which the Grand Am GT comes with tons of...including that excellent 8 speaker Monsoon stereo system.

Bear in mind that the Scion tC is meant to compete with cars like the Cavalier, Sunfire, and Cobalt...the compact 4 banger cars. The Grand Am GT was designed to compete with the likes of the V6 Honda Accord and even some BMW models.

Finally, consider how you're going to drive it. If illegal street racing is your only goal, as I mentioned, there are faster cars out there. If, like me, your daily driving is in stop-and-go traffic with weekend trips down twisty, hilly, and sometimes bumpy roads with friends or family in tow, you will want the combination of a V6 with a 4 speed automatic. I'd stick with the Grand Am GT until you can afford something at least in the same class.

[TheQuietThings]

Originally Posted by DigitalQuirk

What TheQuietThings failed to tell us was that the Grand Am GT he raced was built in 1992, had a slipping transmission, and when he said it had a chip, he meant it had a Frito Lays chip clogging the air filter.

The Scion tC is definitely a move down in class from the Grand Am GT. With a 5 speed and a good driver hammering through the gears, it can do 0-60 in around 7.8 seconds, which is very close to the Grand Am GT's 7.7 seconds...though neither of these cars are hardly fast when compared to, say, a GTO or Neon SRT-4. There's no way you're going to see even an 8 second 0-60 time with the Scion tC and an automatic. Plus, once you start hauling other people around with you in your car, you're really going to miss that extra torque.

Of course, there's more to a car than its raw 0-60 time. There's handling, and the Scion isn't going to outhandle a Grand Am GT. The stopping distance of the Grand Am GT is shorter than that of the Scion tC. Then there's features, which the Grand Am GT comes with tons of...including that excellent 8 speaker Monsoon stereo system.

i hope you are joking

the tC does a 0-60 in 7.4 with the manual, not a 7.8
the GA may outhandle the tC, but at least with the tC you get a lexus quality ride.

whats the stopping distance on the grand am? the tC has the celica gts brakes, and the tC weighs less.

what features does the GA come with that the tC doesnt? does the grand am have a glass roof? do the back seats in the grand am recline?

youre also getting a toyota quality vehicle, with the japanese fit and finish... enough said there.

i am no way hating on grand am's, i just dont understand how you can say that the grand am abused the tC in almost every way.

[DigitalQuirk]

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

i hope you are joking

No, but I'm quite sure you are, since there's no way to "Chip" a Grand Am GT as you suggested...

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

the tC does a 0-60 in 7.4 with the manual, not a 7.8

Where do you get those numbers from? Going downhill in an illegal street race with your buddy working the stop watch on his Timex? The guys at Sport Compact Car Web are pretty accomplished drivers and I'd say they know more about the capabilities of the car than you do.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

the GA may outhandle the tC, but at least with the tC you get a lexus quality ride.

What exactly is so special about the ride quality of a Lexus that makes it better than, say, a Buick? The quality of the ride in the Grand Am GT is without a doubt superior to many cars in its class out there.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

whats the stopping distance on the grand am? the tC has the celica gts brakes, and the tC weighs less.

The Celica is another cheap Toyota product; nothing special there. A stock GAGT with 4 wheel disc brakes goes from 60-0 in 127 ft. Actually, about the same as the lighter Scion with the Celica GTS brakes.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

what features does the GA come with that the tC doesnt? does the grand am have a glass roof? do the back seats in the grand am recline?

Um, how about an 8 speaker 200 watt Monsoon stereo system? A V6 engine? Power seat? Traction control? Fatter tires? More headroom, legroom, hiproom and shoulder room? Longer wheelbase? Wider? Bigger trunk?

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

youre also getting a toyota quality vehicle, with the japanese fit and finish... enough said there.

Last time I checked, GM quality was at least on par with Toyota, if not better. Enough said there.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

i am no way hating on grand am's, i just dont understand how you can say that the grand am abused the tC in almost every way.

The Grand Am is in a higher class than the tC. It costs more to buy; it's targeted at a different buyer. The tC is the car to consider if you're in the market for a Cavalier, Sunfire, Civic, Cobalt, Neon, etc. The Grand Am is competing with the likes of the V6 Accord, V6 Camry, V6 Altima, etc. Therefore, replacing a Grand Am with a tC would be a downgrade.

[TheQuietThings]

you obviously know nothing about GM or Toyota, saying that GM cars are better quality, how is anyone else supposed to believe a word that you say? they cant, since everything that you are saying is complete BS. the engine in the GA isnt an stronger or more reliable than the tC's. Youre getting so much more for the tC then you are getting for a Pontiac.

[DigitalQuirk]

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

you obviously know nothing about GM or Toyota, saying that GM cars are better quality, how is anyone else supposed to believe a word that you say? they cant, since everything that you are saying is complete BS. the engine in the GA isnt an stronger or more reliable than the tC's. Youre getting so much more for the tC then you are getting for a Pontiac.

Perhaps if you spent less time in illegal street races and more time reading the news, you wouldn't need to talk out of your rear so much. I can't blame you, though, since that's where your head seems to spend most of its time.

Let me bring you up to date.

Here's an article from the Detroit Free Press.

The gap is so close between the two that it's practically non-existant. The Grand Am GT uses the exact same 3.4L that the award-winning Impala used up until last year (it's been upgraded to a more powerful and more sophisticated 3.5L this year). The 3.4L has proven to be rock solid for reliability. It's been tricked out in the Grand Am GT with a ram air intake, less restrictive exhaust, and performance axle to make the Grand Am GT as fast as it is.

The Grand Am GT gets 20 MPG citiy and 29 MPG highway, compared to the Scion's 22 MPG city and 29 MPG highway which demonstrates how efficient GMs V6's are. Imagine that...a more powerful V6 engine in a bigger, heavier car with an automatic transmission getting the same highway fuel economy as a smaller, lighter 4 banger Toyota with a 5 speed that makes you row your own gears. Unlike you, I'm not making that up; you can verify the EPA ratings on these cars at any automotive site.

Oops, I almost forgot to mention the Grand Am GT's variable power assist steering. It works so good, I almost forgot it was there.

Let's recap. The Grand Am GT is a bigger, heavier car with a more powerful V6 engine and an automatic transmission. The Scion tC is a smaller, lighter car with a less powerful 4 cylinder engine and a 5 speed manual transmission. Both cars perform similarly with regards to acceleration, braking, and handling, except when you load both cars up with passengers and stuff in the trunk; the Grand Am GT's extra torque is going to give it a clear and definite edge. Meanwhile, both cars get identical highway gas mileage ratings. The 3.4L has a solid reputation and is used in cars like the Impala which has won many awards for reliability. The Grand Am GT, being in a higher class than the Scion tC, has more options such as variable power assist steering, traction control, and a power adjustable seat.

Don't be upset over this. After all, you are trying to compare a $16,000 car to a $23,000 car built by a company blindly determined to capture the #1 spot for reliability. That, and you like to make things up (which is clearly evident) and don't like to accept reality. That's okay; your blind loyalty to Toyota doesn't bother me. You're the one who likes to engage in illegal street races; I think that says it all for your level of intelligence.

[TheQuietThings]

Originally Posted by DigitalQuirk

Perhaps if you spent less time in illegal street races and more time reading the news, you wouldn't need to talk out of your rear so much. I can't blame you, though, since that's where your head seems to spend most of its time.

Let me bring you up to date.

Here's an article from the Detroit Free Press.

The gap is so close between the two that it's practically non-existant. The Grand Am GT uses the exact same 3.4L that the award-winning Impala used up until last year (it's been upgraded to a more powerful and more sophisticated 3.5L this year). The 3.4L has proven to be rock solid for reliability. It's been tricked out in the Grand Am GT with a ram air intake, less restrictive exhaust, and performance axle to make the Grand Am GT as fast as it is.

The Grand Am GT gets 20 MPG citiy and 29 MPG highway, compared to the Scion's 22 MPG city and 29 MPG highway which demonstrates how efficient GMs V6's are. Imagine that...a more powerful V6 engine in a bigger, heavier car with an automatic transmission getting the same highway fuel economy as a smaller, lighter 4 banger Toyota with a 5 speed that makes you row your own gears. Unlike you, I'm not making that up; you can verify the EPA ratings on these cars at any automotive site.

Oops, I almost forgot to mention the Grand Am GT's variable power assist steering. It works so good, I almost forgot it was there.

Let's recap. The Grand Am GT is a bigger, heavier car with a more powerful V6 engine and an automatic transmission. The Scion tC is a smaller, lighter car with a less powerful 4 cylinder engine and a 5 speed manual transmission. Both cars perform similarly with regards to acceleration, braking, and handling, except when you load both cars up with passengers and stuff in the trunk; the Grand Am GT's extra torque is going to give it a clear and definite edge. Meanwhile, both cars get identical highway gas mileage ratings. The 3.4L has a solid reputation and is used in cars like the Impala which has won many awards for reliability. The Grand Am GT, being in a higher class than the Scion tC, has more options such as variable power assist steering, traction control, and a power adjustable seat.

Don't be upset over this. After all, you are trying to compare a $16,000 car to a $23,000 car built by a company blindly determined to capture the #1 spot for reliability. That, and you like to make things up (which is clearly evident) and don't like to accept reality. That's okay; your blind loyalty to Toyota doesn't bother me. You're the one who likes to engage in illegal street races; I think that says it all for your level of intelligence.

ok so you found 1 article in the news that says something good about your car, i bet you i can find 100 that say the opposite.

im not making anything up. do you think im basing everything off of a street race that i had with this car? ive satin the car, and it feels like its going to fall apart, its fit and finish is terrible, i was not impressed at all with the sound system, quality over quanitity is a big issue here. yes the camry engine doesnt get the best gas mileage, partially because of its A/F rating and its very long stroke. Since the engine runs rich and wont stroke more than 20 times a second, the engine is going to last over 250k miles. Forged internals help with that also.

lets not talk about how many articles and awards there are praising the camry engine.

btw - the scion gets 23mpg city and 30 highway.

you want to call that V6 efficient? how many horses per liter are you getting? probably not as many as the tC.
in addition to that, did you say you had an performance intake and exhaust?

you dont notice your powered assisted steering, its because your car needs it to turn since it is so heavy.

the tC's steering is very nimble and responsive, not needing any assisted steering.

im not making any bullshit up, and i really dont know what your problem is. this is an internet forum, so the need for such childish remarks are absolutely obserd. you obviously like your car and i like mine.

just because i was able to outrun a grand am doesnt make it a better or worse car, im just saying what happened, you anyone who reads it, can draw their own conclusions. as for what car will be cheaper/reliable and more fun to drive over the course of the next 10 years, well.... let the people decide from themselves.

[DigitalQuirk]

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

ok so you found 1 article in the news that says something good about your car, i bet you i can find 100 that say the opposite.

Actually, that was the first hit from Google when I typed in "GM Toyota Quality." Try it yourself; it's not just one article, it's many...and the awards are coming from J.D. Powers.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

im not making anything up. do you think im basing everything off of a street race that i had with this car? ive satin the car, and it feels like its going to fall apart, its fit and finish is terrible, i was not impressed at all with the sound system, quality over quanitity is a big issue here.

And yet every professional automotive press reviewer says the opposite of your findings...that the car (Grand Am GT) feels solid, substantial, has a class-leading stereo system...who are people going to believe; you, who claims to have raced a "Chipped" Grand Am GT (yeah right) or people who review cars for a living?

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

yes the camry engine doesnt get the best gas mileage, partially because of its A/F rating and its very long stroke. Since the engine runs rich and wont stroke more than 20 times a second, the engine is going to last over 250k miles. Forged internals help with that also.

Plenty of GM 3.4L V6's that have lasted over 250k miles. Your point is???

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

lets not talk about how many articles and awards there are praising the camry engine.

Okay.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

btw - the scion gets 23mpg city and 30 highway.

Some sites put the EPA rating of the Grand Am GT at 30 MPG as well. I pulled both from the same site, and the reality is, the gas mileage I would get in my Grand Am GT is going to be about the same as I would get in a Scion.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

you want to call that V6 efficient? how many horses per liter are you getting? probably not as many as the tC.

When most people talk about efficiency, they're talking about how much (or little) an engine consumes fuel while still making a good decent amount of power. For instance, a friend of mine had an Acura Integra Type R. Great horsepower-per-liter ratio, but gas mileage literally SUCKED. It didn't help matters any that he was REQUIRED to pump in high octane gas. My brother's old RX-7 was even better for the horsepower-to-liter ratio, but sucked even worse for gas mileage...and couldn't keep up to my Grand Am GT.

Which leads me to my conclusion; horses per liter is MEANINGLESS. Getting good gas mileage on regular octane gas while still having good power is what matters to REAL people with REAL jobs.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

in addition to that, did you say you had an performance intake and exhaust?

It came stock with a ram air intake and performance 4 pipe exhaust system, along with a performance axle, which makes it quicker than the average 3.4L equipped car without hurting fuel economy.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

you dont notice your powered assisted steering, its because your car needs it to turn since it is so heavy.

Actually, that, and the tires are so fat, but still what you just said doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

the tC's steering is very nimble and responsive, not needing any assisted steering.

Yeah, but for some reason, the Lexus gets variable power assist steering...basically, you're staying you think your car is better than a Lexus. I doubt you've ever driven a car with variable power assisted steering, since you have no idea as to how much more responsive it makes a car.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

im not making any bullshit up, and i really dont know what your problem is. this is an internet forum, so the need for such childish remarks are absolutely obserd. you obviously like your car and i like mine.

I don't have a problem; the original question was whether going from a Grand Am GT to a Scion tC would be a move down or not. I think I made it quite clear that it is, and you are the one with the problem facing this reality.

Originally Posted by TheQuietThings

just because i was able to outrun a grand am doesnt make it a better or worse car, im just saying what happened, you anyone who reads it, can draw their own conclusions. as for what car will be cheaper/reliable and more fun to drive over the course of the next 10 years, well.... let the people decide from themselves.

I see plenty of 10 year old Grand Am's on the road today, in very good shape I might add. I too like to let people derrive their own conclusions, but I'm not about to let them think that a $16k 4 banger compact car isn't a step down from a $23k V6 midsized car.

[G-man422]

Tc!