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11-09-2009, 11:39 AM | #16 | |
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
I can. A Lot of how a vehicle handles in the winter is dependent on the driver's skills and abilities. I have driven the same amount of time as MagicRat and in our area we average close to 190" of snow in a season that runs from October to late April.I also have owned close to 25 vehicles in that time. I have definitely "cut my teeth" in experience when it comes to the argument of RWD vs. FWD. I used to be a RWD junkie and have the same views as you...until I got married 13 years ago. That is when I first owned a FWD car. I used to laugh as I drove past FWD and 4x4s on the highways and hills driving my Grand Prix, one of 3 "pre 1982" Monte Carlos, Caprices, Impalas, etc. One of the reasons I attribute to my success in the winter with these vehicles is my driving ability and a good pair of snow tires. ( At the same time I have seen others attempt driving with these same vehicles and not coming even close to the results I experienced.)
I was skeptical as to the performance of FWD in the winter but as I got used to how they are different and adapted to them, along (again) with a good set of snows I achieved the same results as I did with my older RWD. The type of RWD vehicle is important as well. My vehicles tended to do a lot better than other smaller, lighter RWD versions like the Mustang. So choice plays an important role as well. Also I was offering more choices to the OP for a wider selection of vehicles they could choose from under $10,000. Some sport wagons ( older, first versions) are coming down in price as more modern minivans which are plentiful in supply due to the large amount that were produced. I wasn't saying they are a "fits all" rather an additional choice to consider as their maintenance costs are also low and their mpg is within an acceptable range for the amount of cargo space they offer.
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11-09-2009, 12:09 PM | #17 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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Now let's see how that goes in snow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NVgvq2SzY Let's see how this FWD POS gets stuck...oh wait http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ElgttSQ_v4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C_q6H5RCY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbCMzen7mY and now for some good ol' fashioned winter crack-ups that everyone can enjoy - *highly recommend this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxwgHGCrrS4 |
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11-09-2009, 04:51 PM | #18 | |
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the posts so far! I need to check out those youtube vids. In the meantime, what are the best websites for finding used cars? Now I'm thinking I don't need anything too big (ie. for transporting my guitar amp), but just enough to bring around my acoustic guitar, so probably a 2-door coupe is sufficient. |
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11-09-2009, 06:11 PM | #19 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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11-09-2009, 07:04 PM | #20 | |||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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1) No matter what type of car and no matter how fast you accelerate the weight shifts to the back of the car. Simple physics that you're having a hard time grasping 2) Generally yes, though most (and I stress most) FWD cars are imported cars, and the cost of the replacement components is more expensive. 3) Your right one this account, though RWD is still a better option than FWD and it gets just as good, if not better gas mileage. 4) If you don't drive like a complete moron AWD is much better. Much more traction and much better control in bad weather. 5) I'm using youtube to provide examples. Sorry if you've got no better response than to try and bash my source rather than the actual facts presented. 6) Small cars spend less gas to fill up for a few reasons. 1 their smaller and lighter and get better mileage (the point your pressing) 2 they have tiny ass gas tanks (the point your over looking) Of course its gona take more to fill up a 25-30 gallon tank rather than a 10-15 gallon tank. 7) to the bolded. Bull shit. Looking forward to see how you try to prove this. And one other thing your missing, many of the newer SUVs don't use AWD fulltime. As well as most AWD cars.
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Last edited by Shpuker; 11-09-2009 at 08:16 PM. |
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11-09-2009, 07:21 PM | #21 | |||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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Best places to look are Craigslist, Autotrader, Cars.com and yahoo autos
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11-09-2009, 07:41 PM | #22 | |||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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Last one is RWD, AWD and FWD cars and SUVs. whatever. yay more youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p6bw...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdbLG...eature=related ^ dumb asses thought they could drive a corse in revers lmao. But guess why the FWD car had more grip in reverse? the weight shifter to the drive wheels. RWD car would have less grip in reverse than going forwards. The SUV coulda taken it doin 25 lol was no issue at all. We can do the youtube war all we want, FWD is still the worst in wet/icy/snowy conditions, hands down. This is a decent artical on it, http://searchwarp.com/swa51377.htm he doesn't mention weight shifting though. This argument has been had thousand of times on the internet. A ton of times on here for that matter. In a FWD car with around a 60/40 weight distribution (front/rear) should have better grip. when you start to accelerate it shifts to around 50/50. in a RWD car with a 50/50 weight distribution the weight also shifts to the rear while accelerating causeing around a 40/60 weight distribution. Hence RWD gains more grip while accelerating Weight distribution has less of a shift the slower you accelerate obviously, and returns back to the norm when you start cruising. Thus creating understeer in FWD and oversteer in RWD. When a FWD car comes into a corner at normal speeds the car will start to under steer and go off the road slightly, much more so at mild-high speeds. Simply because the front wheels have too much to do. In RWD cars at normal speeds the car has total control due to the front wheels being free to steer while the rear wheels push the car around the corners. Take the corner to fast and you get oversteer, you can correct oversteer, its hard to correct under steer when your sliding off the road. And just to avoid hearing this argument, if you take a corner going way to fast your more than likely going off the road either way, in RWD you can atleast try to steer the car away from trees and such.
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11-09-2009, 07:47 PM | #23 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
K got the vids to load finally, first 2 are idiots that think their the shit cause they got their cars sideways in the snow, notice how he has to back off the ice and get traction on the dirt in the first vid.
The last one is a really good driver, guarantee you he can do the same thing in a RWD car.
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11-09-2009, 09:21 PM | #24 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
Shpuker- Do me a favor and follow the Community Guidelines of this site. Do not post consecutively in a thread, rather edit your latest post to add more info. The last 3 posts are by you and span only 43 minutes. Consider this a warning.
From the Community Guidelines: Quote:
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Thought for the Day… Alcohol does not make you fat - It makes you lean... against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people. If a prostitute here in America loses her job to a prostitute in India , is that considered "outwhoring"??-Jay Leno |
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11-09-2009, 10:10 PM | #25 | |
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
Usually, Shpuker's advice is appropriate and decent, but in this case, it's way off base. It's biased towards his own personal preferences and imo are not the best advice for the OP.
I have driven in snow now for 27 winters. In that time I have owned and driven 25-odd FWD, RWD and 4x4 cars and trucks. FWD is better, especially for the novice. I am not sure is Shpuker actually talks to ordinary or novice drivers. The VAST MAJORITY of car drivers in the winter want the superior traction and steering of FWD. They PREFER it because it is more predictable, it accelerates better and is easier to handle. Unlike Shpuker and me, they are not car enthusiasts and have no interest in the unpredictability of having the rear end of the car slide around. They simply want the easiest form of winter driving, often without shelling the bucks for 4WD. I remember with great clarity, when Chrysler started making FWD cars in quantity in '78, GM in '79 and Ford in '81, the average Canadian car buyer was in seventh heaven. Huge quantities of car buyers, sick and tired of sliding around with RWD embraced FWD cars with great enthusiasm because of the superior winter driving performance. And they have never looked back. FWD is still overwhelmingly preferred here for cars, even though RWD alternatives exist. So, Shpuker, are millions of Canadian FWD car buyers wrong when they prefer it for winter driving? I don't think so. BMW cars?? Worthless in the snow. Worthless.(Except the SUV's are great with the correct tires). Lots of my friends and neighbors have RWD cars.... but for summertime performance, NOT for winter. Sure, FWD may not be preferred for Shpuker personally, but for this original poster, Fwd is the way to go. Imo any deficiencies of FWD stem from the lack of decent snow tires. FWD is good enough that people can get by with all-seasons, although this is often a bad choice. Finally, there is ONE RWD car that is really good in the snow.... the old VW Beetle. With it's RWD and rear mounted engine.... the weight of the engine was over the driving wheels, just like a FWD car. |
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11-09-2009, 10:36 PM | #26 | |||||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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Here is an interesting paragraph from a website discussing the various options of AWD, and 4WD: Quote:
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11-09-2009, 11:09 PM | #27 | |||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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2) Way to take a statement out of context, I'm using it to support the fact that FWD gets less traction. 3) Even if you suggest him a 2WD option RWD is still the better option. And to Magic Rat, BMW's are great winter drivers. Not sure where that BS comment came from. And way to 3 on 1 this crap.
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11-09-2009, 11:36 PM | #28 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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You stated in an earlier post that most FWD cars are imported. I don't know how it is in Colorado, but at least in my area the majority of FWD cars are still made by the Big 3 (GM, Ford, and Chrysler.) This was and still is in some cases a manufacturing town for these companies and the workforce for these are unionized, hence the loyalty to the brand. Parts are still generally less expensive and readily available. On your 'idea' that FWD gets less traction. With current technologies plus a good set of snows I'd pin a FWD against a 4x4 , RWD or a AWD and see what happens. Chances are if the driver has the ability and experience to drive in the snow , they will do well, if not better.Heck even without some of the current aids to driving like traction control and stability control, the FWD still will perform well. If the driver is inexperienced in winter driving they should not consider driving a 4x4 or AWD because they could be lulled into a false sense of security that seems to exist that these types of vehicles are better and not pay as close attention to their driving. Castle Rock Co. gets on average 59" of snow.source. We can get that over the course of 2 to 3 days, and places just a half hour from me can get that in a day . When you start getting over 150" of snow a year then you can come back and discuss the merits of driving in snow and which is better.
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Thought for the Day… Alcohol does not make you fat - It makes you lean... against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people. If a prostitute here in America loses her job to a prostitute in India , is that considered "outwhoring"??-Jay Leno |
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11-09-2009, 11:47 PM | #29 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
I've noticed this here, in Northern Michigan and in every state inbetween. Nice try on the you don't get snow BS. Cause even with our small amount of snow FWD cars are never on the road in the winter.
EDIT: and most cars here that are FWD are japanese or European. Hardly any are domestic. Hell most vehicles here period were not made in the USA.
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11-10-2009, 07:23 AM | #30 | ||
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Re: selecting the best used car for my needs
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Again, living in Ontario and through 4-5 months of snowfall every year in typical -20 Celsius weather, 85-90% of Canadian drivers (in more urban areas) are in FWD cars. If you go into the country sure you'll find more trucks, the roads aren't getting plowed so they need to be able to tread through deep snow. I think the OP is in Boston (right?) so while there may be a bit of snow, it's not as much as we would get where I drive. Shpuker, you have the capacity to give good advice. You just need to think about what's good for the person asking the question, not what you want. Oh, and someone mentioned the old Beetle being a good winter car cause the weight of the motor was over the drive wheels. Well, this is true for acceleration, but don't forget that now you have NO weight over the front wheels, the ones that are supposed to change your direction when you spin the little wheel in side. So you're right it probably accelerated better, but that's the problem - people associate a car that accelerates well with one that handles snow well. Not true! A car that can corner in the winter is the one you want, and because a FWD car's weight is over the tires that are doing the turning, you'll get much more grip. The tires that are getting power are the ones that control direction - wow, there's a novel idea! But let it be said that crappy drivers will crash any car in the winter, be it FWD, RWD or AWD/4x4. You could put a good driver in a classic muscle car with all-seasons and they would manage. |
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