Car will not start

[peppermrj]

Mysatilac, After I posted I thought "this guy is pulling my leg and I fell for it" Thanxs for the clarification. Good luck with the Honda.

Is it possible for a throttle position sensor to fail at statup only. I'm thinking that if it is showing the pedal floored the pcm would indeed enter a clear flood mode. Could it function after startup?

[mysatilac]

Thanks, I've narrowed down the honda's problems to a couple of components (ICM, Ignition Switch, or CPS?)...

You could check the TPS at start up by probing the dark blue wire (+), and the black wire (-), with a multimeter to see what voltage it is sending to the PCM

Idle (.25 - 1 DCV)
WOT (4 - 4.8DCV) "clear flood mode"

So I assume you should see a reading of about 2 - 3DCV while cranking at partial throttle, and check the gray wire (+) and ground to see if you're getting the reference voltage of ~5DCV from the PCM

but unless it was just loose, I dont think that it would start functioning after startup...

[Rick Armstrong]

Originally Posted by Rick Armstrong

= Thanks for your input. I will let you know the outcome.

I tried all the things you suggested with no luck. I replaced the ECT. I pulled the EGR and the IAC and cleaned them. Still will not crank. I pulled the plug wire off and put a screwdriver up in the plug wire and had someone crank the engine. There was hardly any spark at all even if I held the screwdriver within an 1/8 of an inch of the motor. Ever once in a while I would get a spark. Once I shot the starter fluid to engine and it cranked then I got a really strong spark. Why would I not be getting a strong enough spark while cranking? The battery is at 12.5 volts and once it cranks the alternator is outputting 14.5 volts. The engine cranks over really strong. I bought a new coil and tried it in both locations but it did not make a difference. I also installed new plug wires.

[Rick Armstrong]

Originally Posted by peppermrj

ECTS are known problems on saturns prior to 2002. Saturn replaced them with an all brass sensor somewhere between 2000 and 2001.
I have seen them spec out and still be bad without a multitude of other symptoms. I even replaced one that did not have a tell tale crack that was bad. I have the specs and test procedure in the chilton manual also. I totaly agree with staying away from that e-bay crap.
When the PCM recieves a bad signal from the ects telling it the engine is warm even tho it is cold the result is less fuel.
You can unplug it and it will go to a preset mode but I doubt if it would tell you much.
Replacing the ECTS may not solve this particular issue but it is not a matter of if it will fail only when.

If you are using starting fluid Rick you are obviously opening the throttle plate a bit to start the engine. It is possible that the IAC valve is clogged/not functioning as this is what supplies air before the throttle vavle is opened. Try tapping the connection with a screw driver handle while starting the engine. If it makes a diiference replace the valve. If it doesn't try cleaning the pintle and the port it fits into(easier with the throttle body off).
An easier check for spark is to simply pull the wires of of 1 coil and crank it over. You'll see right away. If the engine runs fine the rest of the time especially in high gear I would doubt if this is the problem.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

I replaced the ECT. I pulled the EGR and the IAC and cleaned them. I reset the memory on the PCM. Still will not crank. I pulled the plug wire off and put a screwdriver up in the plug wire and had someone crank the engine. There was hardly any spark at all even if I held the screwdriver within an 1/8 of an inch of the motor. Ever once in a while I would get a spark. Once I shot the starter fluid to engine and it cranked then I got a really strong spark. Why would I not be getting a strong enough spark while cranking? The battery is at 12.5 volts and once it cranks the alternator is outputting 14.5 volts. The engine cranks over really strong. I bought a new coil and tried it in both locations but it did not make a difference. I also installed new plug wires. Still will not crank until I shoot a small amount of starter fluid to it. It cranks up and runs fine. However,it does have a skip when I accelerate or the engine is under a strain. That problems seems to have gotten worse in the last few days.

[peppermrj]

I replaced the ECT. I pulled the EGR and the IAC and cleaned them. I reset the memory on the PCM. Still will not crank. I pulled the plug wire off and put a screwdriver up in the plug wire and had someone crank the engine. There was hardly any spark at all even if I held the screwdriver within an 1/8 of an inch of the motor. Ever once in a while I would get a spark. Once I shot the starter fluid to engine and it cranked then I got a really strong spark. Why would I not be getting a strong enough spark while cranking? The battery is at 12.5 volts and once it cranks the alternator is outputting 14.5 volts. The engine cranks over really strong. I bought a new coil and tried it in both locations but it did not make a difference. I also installed new plug wires. Still will not crank until I shoot a small amount of starter fluid to it. It cranks up and runs fine. However,it does have a skip when I accelerate or the engine is under a strain. That problems seems to have gotten worse in the last few days.

If indeed you are getting a weak or no spark at startup I can't help but think of sierrap615's prior post.

the reason i said to not crank at WOT is because the saturn PCM and many other GMs are programed to enter a 'clear flood' mode [B]which cuts injectiors and spark if the engine is cranked at full throttle and the RPMs stay below a certian point(i think 400 RPMs[/b])

I assume from your post you checked for spark while cranking the engine and also while the engine is actually running. I would try 3 things at this point.
1 Check for spark again only this time try as Mysatilac stated.

You can also take out the Spark plug set the electrode on a ground and see if you get a good spark at the spark plug it self,

Using the grounded plug, check for spark while cranking and while the engine is running. (Use caution) :22yikes: If this is as you stated, that the spark is much stronger while running go to #2. If not go to #3.

2 With the car running tap on the throttle position sensor with a wooden hammer handle and see if there is any change in the idle.
I'm to lazy to get out the multi meter or I would follow Mysatilac's advice on the test procedure.

You could check the TPS at start up by probing the dark blue wire (+), and the black wire (-), with a multimeter to see what voltage it is sending to the PCM Idle (.25 - 1 DCV) WOT (4 - 4.8DCV) "clear flood mode" So I assume you should see a reading of about 2 - 3DCV while cranking at partial throttle, and check the gray wire (+) and ground to see if you're getting the reference voltage of ~5DCV from the PCM

If there is a change when you tap replace the TPS. If this works go to #4.

3 You don't mention #5 on Sierrap615's list, clogged injectors/low fuel pressure. Check as recommended. If this works go to #4.

4 Enjoy a great day with your family.

[Rick Armstrong]

Originally Posted by Rick Armstrong

My daughter's 1998 Saturn S-series will not start. It will turn over fine but will not fire until I shoot some starter fluid down the intake. Then it fires up and runs fine. It consistently will not crank unless I shoot the starter fluid to it. I can hear the fuel pump prime up when I turn the switch on. The Saturn dealer says it may be the ECM but I have my doubts. The ECM will cost my $800 from Saturn.

This problem wound up being a bad ignition switch. I noticed when the engine was being cranked over by the starter that there was hardly any spark to the spark plug. Once the switch was turned toward the run position I would get a couple of strong spark plug sparks. Actually my 16 year old son figured out that he could start the car by turning the key to the start position and then slowly rotating it back the the run position. When the switch hit a certain spot it would make and the engine would crank. I ordered an ignition switch and replaced it and that took care of the problem. I have a call in to the Saturn Dealer General Manager to complain about them trying to take me for a ride by telling me the Electronice Module ($800) was bad. Thanks for all your help. I learned a lot about Saturns from all of this. Plus I saved tons of money.[

[egbiggs@yahoo.com]

We bought a 2003 Vue for our teenage daughter. About a month later the car randomly began not starting. If we waited a couple of hours it usually started fine. Mechanics could not recreate the issue. We notice the key was quite worn. I visited the GMC dealer and purchased 2 new keys for the car. $10 a piece. One key went into the "key drawer," the other on her key chain. Absolutely zero problems for 1 year. Then randomly began same thing. Again mechanics could not recreate and found nothing wrong. But my daughter noticed the key had one spot that was very worn. When comparing the 2 keys I had purchased over a year ago(1 used for a year, 1 in the key drawer for a year) the key was definitely worn down in one particular spot. She has been using the new key for 5 months now without issue. Ik Ik I am not a mechanic or even close. Just thought I would throw this out there to see if it could help someone else. It is definitely inexpensive to try.