BMW to buy Lancia...

[crayzayjay]

Before you go any further, this is not news, in fact not even speculation. Just a thought. Not even my own, but something I read and that certainly captured my imagination.

It’s an article in this month’s evo magazine, which throws up the idea of BMW buying Lancia. Having failed with its Rover project, one would think why would BMW even contemplate doing this? Well, the idea would be for BMW to get closer to achieving critical mass in the auto industry, and unlike Rover, Lancia is a motor company rich with history and heritage. BMW could use existing platforms, such as using the forthcoming 1-series platform to carry the Delta, and so on and so forth… The article indirectly blames FIAT for kicking Lancia to the kerb while promoting Alfa Romeo as Italy’s BMW. As the writer points out, Fiat couldn’t have done this with both brands, and so chose Alfa over Lancia... Personally, I love Lancia and BMW, so this would be incredibly ideal!

Shame I don’t see it happening…

[Hudson]

Why would BMW do such a thing? Lancia offers nothing. Lancia doesn't sell well anywhere except, perhaps, Italy. Additionally, Rover brought its own products, nameplates, plants, and technology. Lancia brings the Lancia name...all products, technology, and plants are Fiat's. Lancia, as with all of Fiat Auto, is on death's door and nobody cares to stop it. Only Alfa Romeo has a chance of surviving.

I really think someone should realize that someone could purchase BMW if the Quandt family wanted to step down (long rumored). My belief....Honda will buy BMW.

[crayzayjay]

Sure they don’t sell well, but the idea would be to revive the marque. Not easy, but with bmw expertise, existing platforms, and the correct styling / marketing, it could be possible. I certainly don’t think it will happen though. As for Honda buying bmw, I don’t see that either.

[Stefanel1]

Honda buying BMW mmmhh, hope it'll never happen !

For Lancia bought by BMW, it'd be a great idea, but Hudson is right alas, today, Lancia doesn't offer many things. It has an history and the models are not bad today but the range is not solid enough and they don't sell any more a lot except in Italy. The buyers in the rest of Europe are rare.

Though, for BMW which has an image of "did you see me" cars (do you understand = expression "m'as-tu-vu"!!), Lancia would be the luxury brand of the group. As For VAG : Audi is the luxury brand, VW the (less and less) popular's and Lamborghini the (very) sporty one.

[Hudson]

Why would BMW need to buy Lancia just for the brand name? They already own Triumph (left over from the Rover purchase)...they could just as easily revive that brand without the baggage that would come with Lancia.

Honda and BMW would make a perfect combination. Honda doesn't have RWD (aside from the S2000 and NSX) and BMW doesn't have FWD (aside from the Mini, which needs a new engine supplier). BMW would remain positioned above Honda's upper models creating (in the US), Honda-Acura-BMW (since Mini is just a niche product) heirarchy. It's a match made in heaven. All they need is a light-truck producer and they'd be unstoppable.

[Stefanel1]

Maybe an accord between BMW and Honda but neither BMW nor Honda would buy each other.

Heummmm ! Lancia exists and has an image for Europeans, even if their range is quite poor today (only 3 models). Triumph.... people don't really remind of this make and they don't make any more cars for long !!!

[crayzayjay]

Exactly. Lancia is an infinitely better takeover prospect than Triumph, no doubt about it. Lancia isn’t currently selling very well but still sells, and if BMW could benefit from economies of scale it may not be such a bad thing. Developing the cars may not be that expensive if BMW is prepared to use its existing platforms, not like what happened with Rover, and lets not forget Lancia still sells in Germany, France, and Italy so there definitely is a market for them. If they get the styling right, and bmw’s chassis boffins get to work, you could have some seriously fantastic lancia’s, for example a revival of the delta integrale (with the help of the M division) would take on the imprezas and shitsubishi’s, a cheaper RWD 3-series badged Lancia would steal sales from Alfa’s 156… you never know… its not as stupid an idea as you might think. I mean, who would have thought that reinventing the Mini would have worked out as terrifically as it has? If the price is right, Lancia could be a good investment.

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Hudson
Why would BMW need to buy Lancia just for the brand name? They already own Triumph (left over from the Rover purchase)...they could just as easily revive that brand without the baggage that would come with Lancia.

Honda and BMW would make a perfect combination. Honda doesn't have RWD (aside from the S2000 and NSX) and BMW doesn't have FWD (aside from the Mini, which needs a new engine supplier). BMW would remain positioned above Honda's upper models creating (in the US), Honda-Acura-BMW (since Mini is just a niche product) heirarchy. It's a match made in heaven. All they need is a light-truck producer and they'd be unstoppable.

]

A Honda and BMW alliance would put the worlds two best engineers in the world in the same room- I'd say it's a match made in heaven as well. Honda have the revolutionary iVTEC and F1 inspired Chassis- BMW are RWD and Transmission gurus. Honda and BMW are the only two 100% independet major manufacturers in the world- aside from Porsche, MG-Rover and Toyota. I'm all for the MINI with an F20C or even the engine from the RSX Type S


As for Lancia no- FIAT should just let Lancia die- before they drag a great name with so much prestige through the mud- Kia has sold more cars in Europe than Lancia this year- which really speaks volumes IMHO

We have leased out about only 100 Lancias this year- compared to 730 FIATS and 435 Alfa Romeos

[Hudson]

Originally posted by crayzayjay
Exactly. Lancia is an infinitely better takeover prospect than Triumph, no doubt about it.

The difference is that BMW would have to revamp the entire Lancia lineup since BMW would have nearly no synergies with the brand AND spend a fortune to improve the sales organization AND buy the brand. With Triumph, BMW already owns the brand...if they used BMW's existing distribution and sales/service organization, it would be much less expensive and BMW would not have the baggage associated with Lancia's ever-weakening image. I'm not saying that this is going to happen...but I'd bet on it happening before anyone figures Lancia is worth saving.

[crayzayjay]

I think Lancia's definitely worth saving. Remember the state of Alfa not so long ago? Indeed, reviving - which is still a better prospect than resurrecting - a brand, takes a lot of money but it's a long-term investment. Im 99.999999% sure its never going to happen, but the platforms are there, BMW is the darling of the motoring world, all it takes is some outrageous concepts and sexy, Italian models... If it can be profitable in the long run, why not?

[Stefanel1]

Exactly Crazayjay ! But Hudson would have given Alfa Romeo for dead 5 years ago ! Today Alfa wouldn't exist any more !!
oups.... that's true, Alfa is going to save Fiat Spa today finally !

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Stefanel1
Exactly Crazayjay ! But Hudson would have given Alfa Romeo for dead 5 years ago ! Today Alfa wouldn't exist any more !!
oups.... that's true, Alfa is going to save Fiat Spa today finally !

Alfa 5 years ago and Lancia now are in different situations. 5 years ago Alfa Romeo were selling old and outdated cars- but they still had a market. Lancia however have a fresh faced (Libra, Thesis, Phedra and Y) line-up- and they have lost all thier customers- becaue they are incredibly overpriced for what they are- they have no market any more- the 70's/early 80's are over- no longer can a maker put a car in a luxury market without a German badge- or at least a decent luxury division- that are developed away from FIAT's products- sort of like Lexus and Toyota (If we forget the LX470 and ES300)

FIAT Spa has one too many groups and it's time to vote one off the Island- Lancia I am sure- is most peoples first choice

[Stefanel1]

Indeed, Lancias are very expensive, a Lybra is more expensive than a 156 and doesn't offer really much. WOrse, it's less easy to sell.
But the Lancia's range is not so good : the current Y is almost 7 years old, and will be replaced soon, but we don't know if the new Y will sell well. It's missing a Delta ! It's the most viable segment (M1) for the cars makers ! The Lybra is very expensive and its design it too shy. Finally the Thésis won't sell a lot because of its high price and the domination of the German makers (BMW, Mercedes and Audi). The Phédra is more expensive than their brothers : the C8, the Ulysse or the 807 and if someone wants a luxurious minivan, he will choose the Espace.

[crayzayjay]

Originally posted by Jimster


FIAT Spa has one too many groups and it's time to vote one off the Island- Lancia I am sure- is most peoples first choice

So does that mean its not worth saving? If its cars are seen as too expensive but not bad cars, then all Lancia needs is a makeover! I just hope someone does it! The longer it goes away for the more difficult it will be to come back

[Hudson]

You folks don't read me well. I really like Lancia and Alfa Romeo, even the old REALLY low quality models. Newer Alfa Romeo and espcially Lancia products are nice.

I never thought Alfa Romeo was on the verge of failing. When the company was doing poorly, they had Ford and Fiat bidding for them. Alfa Romeo's future is basically secure because it's name is more valuable than Lancia's and their products sell in higher volumes. If Fiat decides they could use the money more than having Alfa Romeo around, Fiat Auto will sell it...and someone will buy it. Lancia's fate is not so secure.

Lancia's name doesn't hold as much value. I'd venture to guess that Lancia's name isn't worth much of anything outside of Italy. For the cost of buying Lancia, any company could launch a new brand. Alfa Romeo has positive value in the marketplace...Lancia less so.

Worth saving? Personally, I love the Lancia brand and it's heritage. I would doubt that it has much of any value to any car company.