power : capacity ratio TOP 10

[V8slayer]

Please correct this list if I'm wrong.

Naturally aspirated production cars only.

01. Honda S2000 120bhp/L
02. Ferrarri 360 CS 118bhp/L
03. McLaren F1 LM 112bhp/L
04. Ferrarri 360 111bhp/L
05. BMW M3 CSL 110bhp/L
06. Ferrarri Enzo 109bhp/L
07. Porsche Carrera GT 106bhp/L
08. BMW M3 104bhp/L
09. McLaren F1 103bhp/L
10. Lamborghini Gallardo 100bhp/L

Notice a four cylinder medium priced Japanese sitting atop a list filled with European exotics.

Why has no one bothered to knock the S2000 off its throne? Is it really that hard?

[GTStang]

All the others have more usable HP and torque.

[Neutrino]

plus its a whole lot more easy to make a small i4 be more efficient than is to make some big V8s or V12s

just look at the honda nsx same displacement as a modena 3.6l but it puts out only 290hp to the italian's 400

[justacruiser]

Duh...

http://celica.henryvo.com/genengine.html
http://www.invoicedealers.com/cars/F...asp?model=1377

When's the last time you saw any normal production V8 with 11.5:1 or 11:1 compression? If they use way high compression, it equals higher hp. The way the cylinders in the heads are designed allows them to use just 91 octane fuel without risk of detonation. That kind of power isn't that impressive with those compression numbers.

[V8slayer]

I thought an NSX is a 3.2 litre and it started as a 3.0.

And 280 bhp is an arbitary power cap set by the japanese government on all cars. You'll find the Japanese production versions of STI, Evo, GTR, Supra all have that as their quoted power output.

I'm not trying to say the NSX has as powerful an engine as the 360. But you can't deny Honda know how to make engines.

It's not fair to write off the S2000's power output as easy to achieve. It's an excellent piece of engineering. And quite frankly if it's easy, somebody would have topped it by now. The car industry is numbers crazy.

[crayzayjay]

Originally Posted by V8slayer

It's not fair to write off the S2000's power output as easy to achieve. It's an excellent piece of engineering. And quite frankly if it's easy, somebody would have topped it by now. The car industry is numbers crazy.

No one said it's easy to achieve a reliable 120bhp/l. It is a fantastic engineering achievement. Why hasnt it been beaten? Well, im not so sure so many manufacturers want to achieve the same kind of engine characteristics as the S2k's.

[Joseph1082]

I'll agree... S2000 people when they get beat by v8's are like... "I have 120hp/L... if I had a 5.7...blah blah blah I'd be sooo fast" But I think it is an engineering feet only applicable to small engines and cannot be duplicated and doubled or tripled on a v8. So take it for what it is, the most efficient engine per size... it's not the fastest or the most powerful or the best!

[YukiHime]

Originally Posted by V8slayer

Please correct this list if I'm wrong.

Naturally aspirated production cars only.

01. Honda S2000 120bhp/L
02. Ferrarri 360 CS 118bhp/L
03. McLaren F1 LM 112bhp/L
04. Ferrarri 360 111bhp/L
05. BMW M3 CSL 110bhp/L
06. Ferrarri Enzo 109bhp/L
07. Porsche Carrera GT 106bhp/L
08. BMW M3 104bhp/L
09. McLaren F1 103bhp/L
10. Lamborghini Gallardo 100bhp/L

Notice a four cylinder medium priced Japanese sitting atop a list filled with European exotics.

Why has no one bothered to knock the S2000 off its throne? Is it really that hard?

Hm...have you ever think of the RX-8...1.3L makes 238 hp, which is 183bhp/L...(Well, for 6MT only, the 4AT gets 197 hp from the pretty much alike 1.3L)

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by V8slayer

I thought an NSX is a 3.2 litre and it started as a 3.0.

And 280 bhp is an arbitary power cap set by the japanese government on all cars. You'll find the Japanese production versions of STI, Evo, GTR, Supra all have that as their quoted power output.

I'm not trying to say the NSX has as powerful an engine as the 360. But you can't deny Honda know how to make engines.

oh yeah my bad, it is a 3.2 and i know about the gentelmans agreement in japan about the 280 hp cap and i know car like the GTR break that easily however i never heard anything about the nsx being way above that


anyway my point was, since you asked why exotics don't put out as much hp/l, that it becomes much harder with bigger displacement and cylinders as in the case of the nsx plus as jay pinted out they care often more about the powerband than just peak numbers

of course this does not mean that the s2000 engine is unremarcable

Originally Posted by YukiHime

Hm...have you ever think of the RX-8...1.3L makes 238 hp, which is 183bhp/L...(Well, for 6MT only, the 4AT gets 197 hp from the pretty much alike 1.3L)

they are technically 2.6L engines and from a thermodynamic point of view they are quite inefficient

[YukiHime]

I thought the 1.3L was 2 rotors together, not 1.3 each rotor.(It's on http://www.rx-8.mazda.co.jp/spec07.html )
And if the NSX couldn't make more than 280...What is the deal of Acura's NSX having 290hp...

[publicenemy137]

S2000's are pretty fast and can beat some V8s. A stang GT and an S2000 goin at it, the S2k has a slight slight advantage. It's by no means the fastest car out there but it has a very efficient engine at a good price. Its inline 4 engine is deceiving, it's fast, but it doesn't save gas like an inline 4 engine. My sis has one, it eats up gas like a motherfucker. My only guess why people won't try to top the S2000's efficiency is because there really isn't anything to gain from it, why work so hard to make a really technological fast inline 4 engine when you can just work with less technicalities with a V6 or V8??? Or a turboed inline 4/6.

[publicenemy137]

I think the Nissan 350z is amazing, a V6 3.5 l engine putting out 287 hp naturally aspirated. That's engineering right there, and at a price of only $26k, a great bargain. The VQ engine series are also known for it's bulletproof design. You can easily make the VQ35 410 hp with a twin turbo kit.

[V8slayer]

Well I'm not really a S2000 fan. It's just an interesting fact. My favourite Japanese engine is the RB26 in the R33 and R34's. Following closely by the 2JZ. Although the behaviour of the twin turbos in the 2JZ is a little eratic and scary.

Another fact I noticed about the list is that only two car companies, Ferrarri and BMW account for seven of ten cars.

[Joseph1082]

What is the deal w/ the RX-7/RX-8... it should be up there

[Neutrino]

Originally Posted by YukiHime

I thought the 1.3L was 2 rotors together, not 1.3 each rotor.(It's on http://www.rx-8.mazda.co.jp/spec07.html )
And if the NSX couldn't make more than 280...What is the deal of Acura's NSX having 290hp...

well I'm not sure what the link contains since I do not know japanese but the 1.3L designation is incorrect for sure. It is trully a 2.6L engine.

beside the "International Engine of the Year 2003" it also won the "Best New Engine of 2003" and "Best 2.5-liter to 3.0-liter."

so its clear that among engineers its considered a 2.6L