98 Windstar 3.0 crank but no start

[walterjames]

1998
Ford
Windstar
3.0 liter.

Van was running a little rough but starting. One morning Crank but no start. We went away for a few days came back tried starting it crank but no start. I started checking some things, mainly voltage at the cam shaft position sensor, pulled out the test lead probe, van started. It was driven for 2 days then wife got stuck at work, crank no start.

Ok checked the camshaft position sensor, by testing wire harness pins, back stabbing connections, and piercing the leads further down stream.
Voltage is correct 12 volts in, 5 volts out max when cranked when tested ant all points.

Checked Crankshaft sensor cannot remember the output AC voltage but it is correct.

Told if either of these failed no spark would ensue anyway. I checked spark and have spark at the plugs and at the coil.

Fuel pump I think we are on the 3rd replacement pump had 2 new pumps go out with in a year of install very familiar with bad pumps. Not the case, pump is starting, press the relief valve fuel squirts out, Thought low pressure just did a PSI check at crank it is 36 psi.

Injectors seem to be pulsing I checked one with with a 12 volt bulb it was going on and off need a helper later tonight to check the rest. Checked the resistance of the front injectors 15 ohms right in specs.

My next feat will be a dreaded compression test but, the oil is the color, of..., well...oil. Does not mean there is not a problem with the head gasket there could be.

But I am at a loss, every one I have talked with says I have checked everything they would.

Borrowed a scanner after the first no start, no codes. Must admit have check engine light but that is for cat convertor low performance on bank 2. Even with that code it has been running fine we at one point had 5 codes; misfire, O2 sensor, etc. Replaced the one O2 sensor and the coil pack, in the last year so now down to the one code. But it may of not cycled enough to throw a code.

When I had the scanner I went to the addition tests and ran one forgot the name (borrowed the scanner) it came up with ignition retard shunt open or missing. I never took it off, cannot even find the thing. I guess it is a shunt that will retard the ignition by 10 degress.

Aside from blown head gasket or computer I can not figure this out!
Any thoughts?

Thanks

Walter

[walterjames]

Just an FYI tested all front cylinders left to right got:

94-100-100

Not the best, ford says min pressure should be 101,

The 100 well it could be 101 or 102 but also be 98. Either way the readings are
all close enough to 101 and what is expected of a van with 215,000 miles. Also with those readings it should still start.

Tonight planning on testing the back side.

[tomj76]

I have the 3.8L engine, so I don't know as much about your 3.0L setup.

I think I'd try spraying a little bit of fuel (ether/starting fluid) directly into the intake when cranking it, just to be sure it isn't fuel delivery related, although what you've done should be sufficient.

The compression seems good, but low. Did you have the throttle open when you ran the test?

When you removed the plugs, did you check for spark?

I don't know what "ignition retard shunt open" means. Is this talking about spark advance? If so, that is controlled by the PCM, with inputs from the CPS & CMP. I don't believe there is any other system in the Windstar for timing advancement.

[walterjames]

Thanks for the reply!

Yes had the throttle open, fuel pump fuse pulled, and ignition coil pack disconnected when compression testing. All are good points though.

After finishing compression test was going to try the starting fluid check and see if it starts.

Yes, checked spark with a spark tester all seems good there.

The ignition shunt, I think it has to do with the spark advance.
From what I understand both engines have it, a 2 wire plug that has a shunt that is either installed or removed, depending on how you want the spark set.

But unless it has fallen out I never removed it. We are the original owners.

To tell the truth the problem sounds like a fuel pump issue but we know that is working. When cranking it sounds like it is going to fire up, just not getting enough fuel which leaves the injectors or the computer, I guess?


Thanks Walter

[walterjames]

Got to rear compression test results are:

100-100-90

Note: by the time i got to the last the cyl the 90 result I had run down the battery by leaving the key on. So that result was with jumping it. Charging the battery over night so will try again in the AM, but nothing that should cause a no start.

[12Ounce]

I don't like just throwing money at things, but time is the only thing we have too little of ... no matter how much money we make. You have done a good job of analyzing ... but don't overdo it. To my mind, one of the two sensors has failed ... perhaps both have outlived their normal lives.

I would suggest buying/installing new replacement camshaft and crankshaft sensors and go from there.

[tomj76]

After doing the starting fluid check, if it is still dead, try checking the intake for a sucking sensation at the intake port by covering it with your hand. Another idea is too check the spar timing with a timing light. It's my understanding that a dead CMP or CPS will result in no spark or at least the wrong timing.

[walterjames]

Thanks to all.

Problem solved! How not exactly sure how, but this is the direction I went in.

Rechecked the low cylinders that were reading in the 90's tightened the gauge fitting a bit more on both and got 100 psi

So got a 100 Psi reading on all cylinders. Not bad, very bottom of the specs which is 101 for both the 3.8 and 3.0.

Okay did not even feel like throwing $30.00 at this. Went to the pick a part yard (lucky for me is out our subdivision and across the main street) got a new to me crank shaft sensor and harness plug end for $10. Here comes the fun part. I watched a youtube video where he explains the Crank sensor wiring on a ford focus. It goes into all sorts of detail but one part he touched on is how the wires are shielded, like a coax cable and produce a sine wave.

I looked at the donor Windstar, saw a typical auto cable I pulled off the tape opened it up a few inches up from the plug it was shielded. Got to work on our van looked at the plug saw something shiny on the cable. Got a flash light looked at it more the shielding wires were poking out like splayed fingers and touching the engine block.

So either it was a bad sensor or the wire harness. Because of oil and antifreeze (had a water pump leak a year ago) some of the tape had fallen off and the grounding of the shielding on the block may of caused interference with the sensor sine wave causing the spark timing to be totalty off. Hence no start.

How it splayed out I have no idea? Why it was all pointed at the block?

Did not even splice in the new to me harness plug. Just twisted the wires together and laid them flat for now. Will wrap with tape tomorrow. If I can get a good enough photo I will post it.

By the way both sensors had the same resistance .68.

Last item on the 3.0 at least there is a plug after the crank shaft sensor, it sits on a bracket below the sensor and has a dead end plug cap in it. Is this the shunt I have been looking for? Also the camshaft sensor is shielded the same way. On mine a little poke of bare stranded wire is visible.

Thanks again to all any questions i did not touch on please ask.

By the way it is now running better then it has all summer

Walter

[tomj76]

I'm glad you found it. Too bad it took buying a part that wasn't needed, except for the object lesson it provided. I think the OEM protection for the wire includes a ribbed plastic covering over the wire, nearly down to the connector that attaches to the CPS. The auto parts stores sell a replacement version of that, although it isn't made from the same quality of plastic as the OEM.

[12Ounce]

Good job! The engine harness on the vehicles takes a beating, and Ford (and others) do not provide a harness tough enough for the task. Hyundai does a fair job. I often find the harness will get flexed, and fail, near the end at a fixed, hard, connection such as sensors or whatever. I have discovered that clear, non-conductive, RTV is a good patch to just flood the failing wiring with. As long as the conductor is not broken, and they are separate, the RTV will act as insulator and support. My old 1999 has goobs of RTV all over the harness ends. On many harness ends you can see the bare wire inside the RTV.