What Octane Gas?

[nis.k.a.]

ZAP ZAP baby.......

[Brian P]

you're all crazy !



"The Accord took a tiny step backward in power (minus 2.6 percent) and performance (minus 1.5 percent) on premium fuel"

-Car & Driver

dont regular gas burn faster than premium gas?
i can get about 250 mpg on a FULL tank of Chevron 93'
is that good or bad?

???

When I was using 87 at first and switched to 89, I could tell a little bit of difference. When I upgraded to premium (for about a year), I could DEFINITELY tell the difference.

youre high. you only THINK you noticed an increase in performance because your brain doesnt want your wallet to feel bad.

I've heard that constantly using premium fuel can harm the car.

the only harm it will do is to your bank account.

but I'd just stick with regular because I don't think getting just a 2-3 mpg increase is worth spending .10-.15 more per gallon.

Car & Driver: "Our tests confirm that for most cars there is no compelling reason to buy more expensive fuel than the factory recommends, as any performance gain realized will surely be far less than the percentage hike in price."


I have a foot made of osmium and i can get 275 miles to the tank easy. plus i live in the rockies.

(fyi, osmium is the densest metal... so you can imagine how my foot presses down on the accelerator)

true that is a bone stock P11. but that's besides the point.

no, the point is that if an engine requires 87 octane, then anything more than 87 is a waste of money. and no, regular gas doesnt burn faster than premium gas... ive never heard anything so stupid, but i can imagine where that misconception might have come from. premium gas is required for high-performance engines because of the high temperatures and compression ratios that are associated with them. premium gas has a higher resistance to combustion than does regular gas... thus ALLOWING (NOT MAKING) the engine to make more power, SAFELY (as in, no knock/detonation - engine killers).

so when you think about it... if youve got an engine tuned to take advantage of 87 octane (ours), and you put 93 in it... if anything... the fuel would be LESS likely to burn more efficiently.



i quote Car & Driver:

"Mind you, premium fuel does not necessarily pack more energy content than does regular. Rather, it allows more aggressive engine designs and calibrations that can extract more power from each gallon of gasoline.

An engine's tendency to knock is influenced most by its compression ratio, although combustion-chamber design also has a large effect. A higher ratio extracts more power during the expansion stroke, but it also creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures, which tend to induce knock. In supercharged engines boost pressure behaves the same way. That's why the highest-performance engines require higher-octane fuel.

And finally, if a car calibrated for regular fuel begins to knock on anything less than premium or midgrade, owners should invest in a tuneup, emissions-control-system repair, or detergent additives to solve, rather than bandage, the root problem.

Class dismissed."

[Brian P]

of course if you actually have done some mods to your engine... like advancing the timing for one thing, then by all means, you might just need a higher octane.

[lloyd_nickens]

Well I am gonna put a turbo in and hopefully run between .8 to 1 bar of boost. What would need to do to the engine besides ECU, exhuast and intake to support levels like that?

[CHRIS200T]

87 oct is fine for SR20 in stock form. But what you can do to increase power a bit thru your powerband is. This is for all SR20 N/A motors. You can advance your timing from a stock 15 deg advance to 17-19 deg advance and run 91 oct and you should see anywhare form 3-5 Wheel HP gain. You will also the car will diliver power much more smothly.

[lloyd_nickens]

I noted how one of your cars had nearly 500 whp.

I want that to be my G in a year or so............

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens
I noted how one of your cars had nearly 500 whp.

I want that to be my G in a year or so............

Well if you got the $$$ We can do it. Its not a problem Expect to spend about 14-15k to make it happen

[CHRIS200T]

Originally posted by lloyd_nickens
Well I am gonna put a turbo in and hopefully run between .8 to 1 bar of boost. What would need to do to the engine besides ECU, exhuast and intake to support levels like that?

What turbo you talking about! T3/T04E Turbo!! You can only run about 12 PSI on a 9.5:1 static comprestion SR20DE. You being in DC in the winter with watter injection you could probebly do 15 PSI. Where talking about pump gas here... Race gas you can run 22-24 PSI... But to support 15PSI you will need a Larger MAF Sensor and Larger Injectors.. I suggest you Contact Chris Parker @ SR20Development as he can get you what you need ASAP he works Vary Closely with JWT and he seems to get moved to the front of the request line.

Mustang Cobra MAF
MSD 50LB/HR Injectors
JWT Fule rail to support the MSD's
JWT ECU Reprograming for the MAF and Injectors.

Or... You can order the FMAX turbo kit and it comes with all of that for 4500 bucks.. and you should see about 320 WHP @ 22 PSI of boost.

Thats about all you need in the way of supporting what you want to do.

[lloyd_nickens]

Geeeeeeezzzzzzz, I'm in the military. I have money but not like that.


I give a couple of years then.........

[howard_w13]

Originally posted by Brian P
you're all crazy !



"The Accord took a tiny step backward in power (minus 2.6 percent) and performance (minus 1.5 percent) on premium fuel"

-Car & Driver



???



youre high. you only THINK you noticed an increase in performance because your brain doesnt want your wallet to feel bad.



how right you are. the only harm it will do is to your bank account.



how right you are. Car & Driver: "Our tests confirm that for most cars there is no compelling reason to buy more expensive fuel than the factory recommends, as any performance gain realized will surely be far less than the percentage hike in price."


I have a foot made of osmium and i can get 275 miles to the tank easy. plus i live in the rockies.

(fyi, osmium is the densest metal... so you can imagine how my foot presses down on the accelerator)

true that is a bone stock P11. but that's besides the point.

no, the point is that if an engine requires 87 octane, then anything more than 87 is a waste of money. and no, regular gas doesnt burn faster than premium gas... ive never heard anything so stupid, but i can imagine where that misconception might have come from. premium gas is required for high-performance engines because of the high temperatures and compression ratios that are associated with them. premium gas has a higher resistance to combustion than does regular gas... thus ALLOWING (NOT MAKING) the engine to make more power, SAFELY (as in, no knock/detonation - engine killers).

so when you think about it... if youve got an engine tuned to take advantage of 87 octane (ours), and you put 93 in it... if anything... the fuel would be LESS likely to burn more efficiently.



i quote Car & Driver:

"Mind you, premium fuel does not necessarily pack more energy content than does regular. Rather, it allows more aggressive engine designs and calibrations that can extract more power from each gallon of gasoline.

An engine's tendency to knock is influenced most by its compression ratio, although combustion-chamber design also has a large effect. A higher ratio extracts more power during the expansion stroke, but it also creates higher cylinder pressures and temperatures, which tend to induce knock. In supercharged engines boost pressure behaves the same way. That's why the highest-performance engines require higher-octane fuel.

And finally, if a car calibrated for regular fuel begins to knock on anything less than premium or midgrade, owners should invest in a tuneup, emissions-control-system repair, or detergent additives to solve, rather than bandage, the root problem.

Class dismissed."

What month of Car and Driver did you find that article?

:coolguy: :coolguy:

[nis.k.a.]

So Brian P, I'm high huh? Then you say if I did mods and advanced my timing than it's O.K.? Did you see the pic? Yes, I have just about every bolt-on for a P10 AND have my timing advanced just a little. So quit with the typers rage.
Lastly, I KNOW that theres a difference between throtlle response and true hp, thus I know when there is a difference in the way my engine runs. I never said my car was faster. I simply said I DEFINITELY noticed a difference (this was before all my mods mind you). And no it wasn't cheap gas to good or anything like that. Same station, same pump, different grade.
Ease off everyones back, not even Car & Driver know everything. Smarter.....depends on who you ask.

[Brian P]

the article says November 2001.

here is the link

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...e_gasoline.xml


there is no reason why hp OR throttle response should change just because of the grade of fuel.

i may have taken your quote out of context. i dont know. i just assumed it refered to a stock SR20DE motor.

but i'm standing by my statement. running a higher grade fuel in a stock SR20DE isnt going to make *any* difference, other than how much cash is left in your wallet.

you say i'm wrong. fine. i'd just love an explanation as to why... but not some "because i put 93 in my car and it felt faster." or "more resonsive" or even got faster times, as times can vary just because of the margin of error - many uncontrollable, such as atmospheric conditions.

you say C&D is also wrong. a bold statement, but also fine. i would just love to hear a scientific explanation, not anecdotal evidence.

[nis.k.a.]

Read again, nothing in my previous post should've lead to anything that you just said. Especially, that C&D is wrong. Like you said, and what I meant; margin of error.

[P10DET]

Guys, there's a lot of monkey dung being flung around here. Read the gasoline FAQ.

http://www.landfield.com/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/

High octane will not harm your car.

Octane ratings are different in North America from the rest of the world. In North Americal it's an average of Research and Motor Octane Numbers (RON and MON) and that is why you see (R+M)/2 on the pumps. The rest of the world uses RON.

For most people, higher octane is a waste.

There are things that can be done that take advantage of higher octane numbers that will add to performance, but higher octane numbers by themselves will do nothing.

Higher octane number fuel can be good if you are trailering or driving on a lot of hills for extended periods. It will keep the engine from pinging or detonating under heavy loads and over time this will can be an advantage.

[TRBOBRK]

Originally posted by FlossinPrimera
Ha ha, 93 octane is 1.089 in Indiana.

It's $1.799 in Washington now. It has gone down from $2.00 in the last few weeks.

Originally posted by P10DET
...driving on a lot of hills for extended periods.

Hills are all we have near my house so I will stick with 93.