Honda/Acura HP vs Torque

[GP2K]

I was just wondering about something. For some reason, Honda/Acura cars almost always have a much higher horsepower than torque. For example, Accord(240,212), S2000(240,161), TL(270,238), etc..Now this is not a knock on these particular brands, rather a curiousity. Does anyone know the reason(s) why?!

[portaman03]

i dunno, but id much rather have more torque than hp.

[Mendari]

There are three types of forces that a metal must withstand, compression, tension and torque (i.e. push, pull, twist). Torque is a twisting force and torque causes stress on metals. It is less expensive to make an engine that spins fast (push, pull ) but there is a lot more involved when designing metals that can resist torque ( twist ).

[crxlvr]

Originally Posted by portaman03

i dunno, but id much rather have more torque than hp.

its just how they are designed, many 4 cyl cars almost always have higher HP than TQ numbers, most cars in fact. look up stats on any car, as long as they arent supercars, like ferraris, lambos, etc than you will see the same effect.

[Dumped91Hatch]

It all has to do with the displacement of the motor. Example a 2000 Civic Si 1.6 DOHC Vtec will have less 111tq, compared to a 2000 Integra GSR 1.8 DOHC Vtec with 128tq.
A 92 Dodge Daytona has a 2.5 motor with 100 hp and 135tq. That is why V8 Motors have so much tq because they have like 5.7 litres.

[MexSiR]

Also Honda motors get losts of Horsepower per liter, meaning that out of a small engine lots of horsepower is extracted, honda sport oriented engines are famous for that. By raising the redline power is increased in large amounts and torque is not, take for example, the 1.6 liter 185 hp, or the 1.8 195 hp, or the 2.0 240 hp. Torque i cannot be highered from a NA motor, it is very hard, you need forced introduction, but hosepower can be raised, by using technology such as highrevving vtec engines.

[GP2K]

Originally Posted by MexSiR

Also Honda motors get losts of Horsepower per liter, meaning that out of a small engine lots of horsepower is extracted, honda sport oriented engines are famous for that. By raising the redline power is increased in large amounts and torque is not, take for example, the 1.6 liter 185 hp, or the 1.8 195 hp, or the 2.0 240 hp. Torque i cannot be highered from a NA motor, it is very hard, you need forced introduction, but hosepower can be raised, by using technology such as highrevving vtec engines.

Actually a lot "import" guys out there seem to cling to this HP/Liter thing. To me it doesn't matter how the power is made (forced induction, larger engine, etc.). As long as I have that power in my car that's all I care about.

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by Dumped91Hatch

It all has to do with the displacement of the motor. Example a 2000 Civic Si 1.6 DOHC Vtec will have less 111tq, compared to a 2000 Integra GSR 1.8 DOHC Vtec with 128tq.
A 92 Dodge Daytona has a 2.5 motor with 100 hp and 135tq. That is why V8 Motors have so much tq because they have like 5.7 litres.

Pretty much, the design of the motor lends itself to a higher RPM range, and a completely different powerband than most domestic that run higher displacement, and why a Honda civic with a B16 that puts out 111 lbs ft can smpoke say a Cavalier the puts down 150, because torque NUMBERS, and Hp NUMBERS don't actually mean shit. It is 100% usable powerband, when and where your motor makes power. To give you a dramatic example look at your typical Mack truck, here are some specs from a Mack...

Mack E7-300 E-TECH (Electronic)
300 HP @ 1950 Gov. RPM
1160 lb. ft. Max. Torque @ 1200 RPM

Ok, so the Mack E7 motor makes 10 times the torque of a B16A right, so, why can't you drag them, I mean shit, look at that torque number. Because it doesn't put the power to use, and torque is just a NUMBER. By tself it is useless, you have to put it to the ground.

[portaman03]

macks are also so goddam heavy lol. anybody ever see tractor trailer drag racing??? lol its fuggin sweet

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by portaman03

macks are also so goddam heavy lol. anybody ever see tractor trailer drag racing??? lol its fuggin sweet

Exactly my point.

[Mendari]

Originally Posted by GP2K

Actually a lot "import" guys out there seem to cling to this HP/Liter thing. To me it doesn't matter how the power is made (forced induction, larger engine, etc.). As long as I have that power in my car that's all I care about.

Yes, HP/Liter is calculated at only one exact point on the engine's RPM scale. In a street sports car, it is more important to have a higher average horsepower rating. No engine spends it's entire life at 8,5000 RPMs; Sometimes we have to stop at a red lights.

[Mendari]

Originally Posted by jcrx

Pretty much, the design of the motor lends itself to a higher RPM range

Yes, the ratio of the rod length versus crank stroke dictates the shape of the power band of the engine. However, HP and Torque numbers are important because they provide insight into when and where the power is delivered.
Also, if the Mack truck had an imaginary 15 speed automatic transmission with incredibly tightly spaced gears, it would be very fast down the quartermile. But transmission gearing is entirely off this threads topic of HP/Trq on a Honda engine.

[GP2K]

So far you guys make sense. I look at two things myself: 1) The curve of the power band (the fatter the better, while peaky powerplants suck) and 2) How much power do I get at a low end. For instance in my GP I have excellent power down low, but it runs out of air as I get into the higher RPMs. To my driving needs, I prefer the low end for passing,
merging and quick starts.

[jcrx]

Originally Posted by Mendari

Yes, the ratio of the rod length versus crank stroke dictates the shape of the power band of the engine. However, HP and Torque numbers are important because they provide insight into when and where the power is delivered.
Also, if the Mack truck had an imaginary 15 speed automatic transmission with incredibly tightly spaced gears, it would be very fast down the quartermile. But transmission gearing is entirely off this threads topic of HP/Trq on a Honda engine.

Hp and torque numbers as displayed from a factory sticker are usless, and drwan up to lure buyers into thinking they are getting something better than they are. I'll even sight Honda as a prome example of this. 99-00 Si 160hp, but like you said no one spends all day at 7900 rpms, and under 5000 rpms is hardly impressive in that heavy ass chassis. But now drop that in say a VX or CX, weight over a thousand pounds less, and that becomes a fairly competitive little car, I know, I hung with a 2003 Civic type R yesterday all the way to about 90 mph in mine. And about the tranny gearing, it isn't off topic at all, since it is DIRECTLY related to how a car performs, and how it translates it powerband into a forward motion, which is hte bases of hp and torque comparisions in the first place, right?

[GP2K]

Originally Posted by jcrx

Hp and torque numbers as displayed from a factory sticker are usless, and drwan up to lure buyers into thinking they are getting something better than they are. I'll even sight Honda as a prome example of this. 99-00 Si 160hp, but like you said no one spends all day at 7900 rpms, and under 5000 rpms is hardly impressive in that heavy ass chassis. But now drop that in say a VX or CX, weight over a thousand pounds less, and that becomes a fairly competitive little car, I know, I hung with a 2003 Civic type R yesterday all the way to about 90 mph in mine. And about the tranny gearing, it isn't off topic at all, since it is DIRECTLY related to how a car performs, and how it translates it powerband into a forward motion, which is hte bases of hp and torque comparisions in the first place, right?

Yes I agree, the gearing is extremely important and should be included as part of this discussion. On an off topic for a second. My wife and I are considering getting a new car. '04 Accord V6 (coupe/sedan) is one of our many choices. Can I get the Honda/Acura side of the deliberation??