Multiple codes HERE IS OUR SOLUTION!!!

[tmartin000]

This thread is probably why we all have so many issues....

inspect connector C305 and C305B

http://www.aztekfanclub.com/SMF/index.php?topic=6235.0


This out to be a sticky....

Bulletin No.: 01-08-45-005E

Date: August 29, 2006

TECHNICAL

Subject:
Hard/No Start, Fuel Gauge Inoperative/Fluctuates, SES/Check Engine Light On, ABS Warning Light On, TCS Warning Light On, TCS Activation, Service Traction System Message Displayed, All-Wheel Drive Disable Message Displayed, DTCs Set (Repair Connector)

Models:
2002-2006 Buick Rendezvous
2005-2007 Buick Terraza
2000-2005 Chevrolet Venture
2005-2007 Chevrolet Uplander
2000-2004 Oldsmobile Silhouette
2000-2005 Pontiac Montana
2001-2005 Pontiac Aztek
2005-2007 Pontiac Montana SV6
2005-2007 Saturn Relay

Supercede:

This bulletin is being revised to add 2007 model year. Also, additional information was added to the Important statement. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-08-45-005D (Section 8 - Body and Accessories).

Condition

Some customers may comment on one or more of the following conditions:

Engine is hard to start

Engine will not start

Engine starts then stalls

Fuel gauge is inoperative or fluctuates

Service Engine Soon/Check Engine light is illuminated

ABS Warning Light is illuminated

TCS Warning Light is illuminated

TCS activation

Service Traction System message displayed

All-Wheel Drive Disable message displayed

These conditions may be intermittent. Upon investigation, the technician may find various DTCs set.

Cause

This condition may be due to water leaking into the interior of the vehicle, and/or spread terminals, at connector C305 that is located on the floor to the rear of the driver's seat. This connector is not sealed from the inside of the vehicle and water may enter the connector causing the terminals to become corroded. Also, the female terminals of the connector may have become spread apart causing an intermittent poor connection.

Correction

Inspect the terminals at connector C305 for corrosion or spreading before replacing the fuel module or resistor card kit. Terminals can be accessed from underneath the vehicle.

Do not attempt to repair any spread female terminals as this will result in a return repair. The female terminal must be replaced.

If the terminals show signs of corrosion, determine the source of the water leak first and repair the water leak before repairing the terminals in connector C305. Refer to Corporate Service Bulletin Number 01-01-38-009A to determine a potential source for water in the vehicle interior.

Repair any corroded and/or spread female terminals in connector C305. Refer to Repairing Connector Terminals in the Wiring Systems sub-section of the appropriate service information.

Warranty Information

[tmartin000]

test

[sisson_d]

BTW, when I evetually came across this TSB several years ago, I found that the previous owner had removed all the harnesses and the plastic connector that they attached to. They had simply twisted all the wires together and thrown some tape on them, but they did this on the outside side of the body exposed to the lelments. The hole in the body was filled with a giant wad of silicon caulk. Needless to say, I had most of the problems listed in the TSB.

I ended up getting the plastic connector off a junked van. But I found that GM had all the harnesses available with a length of wires (about a foot long). The kits came with in-line connectors and heat shrink wraps to weatherproof the connections. It did take a while for the parts counter guy at the dealership to find the numbers and he needed to call the GM help desk for assistance. But the harnesses helped make the job much easier and they were affordable. Also, the wires were a good deal thicker gauge then the original wires which is never a bad idea if there's room. It might be a better option than trying to work with original corroded harnesses.

[1999montana]

I've noticed water under the driver's side mat next to the inner rocker in a channel that has a bundle of wires running to the fuel pump and a number of other things as well. I mopped the water up twice, but was unable to discover where it was coming from. It's clear, clean water which originally led me to believe it might have been the AC leaking back into the van, but this summer I checked the drain and even on an incline with the nose higher than the rear, the water exited the drain. The only other place it might be coming in would be due to a poor seal around the windshield, perhaps high up on the pinch weld on the body near the center-top of the windshield.

Being a 'root cause' removal kind of person, in my view the TSB could have outlined possible checks for water entry, rather than just suggesting vaguely that the tech repair the source of water entry without guidance. Surely GM knew the possible entry points that caused the leaks in the first place.

One that I remember is in the rear hatch upper right side where they used this ridiculous body tape to seal the roof panel pinch welds to the hatch door frame. They used this same crappy stuff in an number of areas to seal the body. After a year, you could see that there was moisture behind the tape because it had begun to show bubbles under the tape. What were they thinking, - anyone's guess. But I digress.

I had a repair done on the wiring for this very water problem when the van was 3 or 4 years old. Power door locks would not work from the passenger side. The tech said they fixed the problem with the power locks not working due to some corroded wires which he patched (never did find the area he patched!), BUT I WOULD HAVE TO FIND THE SOURCE OF THE WATER ENTRY!

I remember thinking, gee thanks GM for being so helpful; - exactly where do I begin, and does it involve removing the headliner to do a water leak test??

[Bezanson Racing]

Hey sisson_d, do you have a part number for that kit, or any more information on it? The dealership guys just look at my cross-eyed.

[sisson_d]

It was many years ago now, but I do remember that there was no specific part number in the system for this connector w/pigtails kit. The parts guy (at Bob's Buick-GMC-Pontiac in Milford, CT) spoke with someone at some sort of GM parts help desk for about 15 minutes before they got the part ordered for me. But I have not seen that guy there for a few years now. Sorry I can't help more. I'll take a look for the receipt in case I was wrong about the lack of part number. I'll post if I find anything.

[Go2guy65]

Hi. I have read the bulletin numerous times. My terraza has many of these symptoms. Wonky fuel guage. Abs light. Check engine light. All wheel drive disabled message. Stalling at low idle. Hard to start. Weird shifting. Loss of power.

Before I change out the ECM, I wanted to look at the connector the bulletin speaks of and then ascertain the part numbers. I crawled under the drivers side and only see one module about midway between pass and drivers sides. Looks nothing like what I have encountered c305 to look like. Is this it? Can anyone tell me the part numbers of the make and female plugs So I can order them just in case? Any help would be appreciated. I remove my battery terminal for 15 minutes and them the can runs OK. Had a tune up. Changed all the wires and plugs but still the miss and the loss of power and stalling at low idle. I pull over. Remove the battery terminal and it starts up. Help! Codes show misfire and maps prob. Sometimes cruise does not turn on and cigarette lighter does not power up. Can someone let me know if I'm looking at the right part to separate and ckean/poss replace or if I'm looking on the wrong place. Please see pics.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvTPmx6EdVkgkV0QCRwvluZzdpsP

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvTPmx6EdVkgkV-paiz-JX1hI4Yp

[sisson_d]

I'm not 100%, but I think your pics show the O2 connector. It's definitely not the C305 though. This is the best pic I could find online of C305.
It's located where multiple exterior harnesses go through the floor of the van and continue into the interior. Go underneath on the driver's side and look roughly where your feet would be if you were sitting in the second row behind the driver. Once you find it, you'll want to pull up the carpet on the other side of it to see what it looks like on the interior as well. Get out the socket set and remove the little metal plate that protects the connector from getting stepped on.
I do warn though, that some of the problems you've mentioned have nothing to do with the C305 as far as I know. So, it might have nothing to do with the C305. Or it might be C305 plus some other problems. Considering all th things you've mentioned, you may have problems at the fuse block. Good luck!
-Doug

Originally Posted by Go2guy65

Hi. I have read the bulletin numerous times. My terraza has many of these symptoms. Wonky fuel guage. Abs light. Check engine light. All wheel drive disabled message. Stalling at low idle. Hard to start. Weird shifting. Loss of power.

Before I change out the ECM, I wanted to look at the connector the bulletin speaks of and then ascertain the part numbers. I crawled under the drivers side and only see one module about midway between pass and drivers sides. Looks nothing like what I have encountered c305 to look like. Is this it? Can anyone tell me the part numbers of the make and female plugs So I can order them just in case? Any help would be appreciated. I remove my battery terminal for 15 minutes and them the can runs OK. Had a tune up. Changed all the wires and plugs but still the miss and the loss of power and stalling at low idle. I pull over. Remove the battery terminal and it starts up. Help! Codes show misfire and maps prob. Sometimes cruise does not turn on and cigarette lighter does not power up. Can someone let me know if I'm looking at the right part to separate and ckean/poss replace or if I'm looking on the wrong place. Please see pics.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvTPmx6EdVkgkV0QCRwvluZzdpsP

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvTPmx6EdVkgkV-paiz-JX1hI4Yp

[Go2guy65]

Thanks Doug! I had no idea it could be in the interior. I'll look tonight after work. As far as the symptoms having to do with the c305 connector, the bulletin at the beginning of the thread describes almost to a T the troubles I'm having. I'll let you know as soon as I take a look. Thank you again for the help!

[sisson_d]

The actual problem is that the vans weren't weather sealed all that well and water would collect on the floor of the van. That C305 connector is recessed so that the connector could be near your feet, but not be raised up. So it is a low-point in the floor that water would collect in. Then the harness would corrode from the moisture. So, you're looking for corrosion on the inside and outside parts of that connector and the wires leading up to them.

Originally Posted by Go2guy65

Thanks Doug! I had no idea it could be in the interior. I'll look tonight after work. As far as the symptoms having to do with the c305 connector, the bulletin at the beginning of the thread describes almost to a T the troubles I'm having. I'll let you know as soon as I take a look. Thank you again for the help!