95 Trans Sport 3.8 Rear Head Removal?

[sega32x]

Been reading up quite a bit, great site, but ran into a problem!

Doing a head gasket replacement on my 3.8, front one went without a hitch (to remove), but for the life of me I cant get the back one off. For the most part, its due to the location, nearly right up against the firewall, so I cant get my breaker bar in there.

Anyone have any helpful hints for getting at the Rear Head?

Thanks Alot!
32x

[Jrs3800]

Yes its tight back there... Only way I can see you removing the bolts would be with the rear Exhaust manifold removed, and even then you'd have to have a Swivel.... If you have just enough room you may be able to get an impact in there( Maybe )... I don't generally recommend it, But in the past I have removed hard to get at bolts carefully with an Impact attached to an Impact Swivel and 6 point socket..

Removing the heads on my Transport is something I will do in the future... Good Luck

[sega32x]

Thanks! Yeah I spent all day today with it, after yesterdays fiasco. Tried an air ratchet yesterday, it did a good job at rounding off a nut, so that was scrapped.

Today I just crawled back inside the engine bay with my breaker bar, a ratchet, and a flex-head ratchet, and managed to remove every bolt in the exhaust manifold with the exception of one, the rounded off one. Grabbed a rounded bolt extractor, and will give it a try tomorrow.

After that, the head should come off easially, due to the angle of the bolts in relation to everything else, as they are more vertical than horizontal!

[LMP]

..THIs is a first (that I know) on this forum. Several have dumped the subframe down for several reasons, transmission, engine swap, etc...and the GM manual suggests nothing else ...
THe 3.1 job is done more easily....the engine is smaller and 60°.

If you could manage to take a few photos for the record, they would be helpful if someone goes through the same. Head gasket failures on the 3.8 are rare though....

[sega32x]

Yeah, I know how rare it is on the 3.8's. Ive read every topic on this forum in regards to the transsport/lumina/silhouette head gasket failure, most points to the intake manifold and their gaskets.

Issue is, the gaskets appear to be OK, and my mechanic said it was head gasket failure. I figgure I'm already in there, why not change out the head gaskets too!

Here are a few blurry camera phone pics for now, of the front head, and rear head clearance!

A picture of a coolant filled front head, as soon as I took the first head bolt out, coolant poured right out for a good minute:




Not much clearance between the rear head and the firewall:



Halfway there (front head removed):

[LMP]

thanks for the pics......so...mmm..??....what were the symptoms that lead you to engage into such an endeavour...., that is, before the mechanic told you to?...and......is the geography in your profile a "click" typo error,...or is it for real ?

[inafogg]

i thought by removing top engine mount(dog bone)it will allow you to tilt engine forword but i guess thats not the case??

[sega32x]

Typo, I just kinda skipped over it, but North East USA!

To start, there was a 'watery' sound in the engine for a while, then the heat would blow cold. Finally a nice loud noise outta the engine, which brought it to the mechanic. He said it was the head gaskets!

In regards to the tilting, i could not find a definate if this engine could be tilted or not, so I didnt try!

Got the rear exhaust manifold off today, and two of the rear rear head bolts, other two are starting to round off which is not good!

The four top (under the valve cover) rear head bolts are not off yet, but they should be simple due to their location

[LMP]

Originally Posted by sega32x

Typo... there was a 'watery' sound in the engine for a while, then the heat would blow cold.

a)..ok,
b)..it figures; well, it had to be done..sh..tt happens.
..and as inafogg says, they even sell a tool that goes to replace the dog bone and pull the engine forward... http://www.pennautotools.com/index.a...OD&ProdID=5494

[inafogg]

i'd check & see if your mount wont allow you to tilt engine.only takes 5 min & if you can the extra space is very helpful!!Good Luck

[sega32x]

Well Good News!

Got the rear head off today, without totally removing the rear exhaust manifold.

Basically, take off as many bolts as you can before you remove the manifold (head bolts), than remove the rear exhaust manifold, and with as much play as you can, push it back. If needed jam in something to give you leverage to push.

Not the most elegant, but it worked.

Then Used a rounded off bolt remover, took out the head bolts, and out came the head!

Now comes the interesting part, putting it all back together! Will clean the heads and the block tomorrow, and go from there.

[Jrs3800]

Let us know how it all goes..

[sega32x]

Well the block is nice and shiny now, old gasket is off the block, no residue, and the heads.

Installed the rear head gasket with head today, but ran into a problem, it seems every other rear pushrod is too long. It does not make any sense, and I never took the rods out at once, I took one out at a time, inspected, and put back.

For the hell of it, I tried every single pushrod in the #1 position (according to my "diagram"), and it still was too long.

Seems rods 1, 3 and 5 are too long, but that makes no sense!

Back of car
1-2 3-4 5-6

7-8 9-10 11-12
Front of car

Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks,
32x

[Jrs3800]

Originally Posted by sega32x

Well the block is nice and shiny now, old gasket is off the block, no residue, and the heads.

Installed the rear head gasket with head today, but ran into a problem, it seems every other rear pushrod is too long. It does not make any sense, and I never took the rods out at once, I took one out at a time, inspected, and put back.

For the hell of it, I tried every single pushrod in the #1 position (according to my "diagram"), and it still was too long.

Seems rods 1, 3 and 5 are too long, but that makes no sense!

Back of car
1-2 3-4 5-6

7-8 9-10 11-12
Front of car

Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks,
32x

Yeah you are right that does not make any sense at all..

All of the pushrods on a 3800 L27 will be the same length no matter the location its in.. But it is best to install them in their original location..

I think what you may have is the lifters being pushed up by the cam lobe... And it almost sounds about right for what you are describing... There will always be a couple of cylinders that have a pushrod in a different location depending on the rotation position of the cam lobes..

Ok here is a Pic of my LN3 3800, Its just about the same thing as the L27 with the exception that the PCV system is not integrated into the heads..

In this Pic if you look at the 2 left rear cylinders you will see that a couple of lifters are up per the rotation or location of the cam lobes.... This may be why you are thinking the push rods are different lengths...

Let us know if there is anything else we can answer for you...

[sega32x]

Thanks, that is the exact problem I am having! Even the same cylinders!

Issue is I can not tighten down the head (or the rockers, depending how I put it on), due to the fact that the valve is "up".

Appreciated!
32x