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Old 11-26-2001, 11:34 AM   #1
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Alternative fuel vehicles

I already have information on GM's EV1 and Toyota's Prius... I still need more info on Honda's Insight, and their prototype for "hydrogen" cars... Also, what is this I hear about water-run vehicles???

Any information would be very helpful. Just for reference, this info is needed for a speech on alternative fueling choices for the future...

~tangie
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Old 11-26-2001, 11:50 AM   #2
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OK, the insight uses a 1L 3 cylinder engine with 70 hp, with an electric motor/generator integrated into it. (its not nearly as torque as the Prius, which has like 220+lb-ft).

Water-powered vehicles: Soon, there should be on the market some of these. At night, you would plug it in, and attach the vehicle to a hose. Then, through electrolosis, it will separate the H and O, and will store the H in a tank. then in the morning, you will unplug the hose/power, and drive away, making no emissions whatsoever! (except for the required power for electrolosis, which comes from the coal-fired power plant down the road)
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Old 11-26-2001, 11:52 AM   #3
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Also, BMW wants to use hydrogen in regular engines (so they could use the water process). Some places want to use a really complicated/expensive way to turn the hydrogen into electricity. This a stupid idea.
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Old 11-26-2001, 04:32 PM   #4
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There won't be any vehicles operating on water anytime soon.

Hydrogen is the near-term fuel of the future. The methods of extracting hydrogen are varied.

Some of them include on-board reformers which pull the hydrogen from another fuel like methanol or gasoline. This method is being devised (and should be on the market within 3-4 years) to utilize the existing systems for fuel delivery. You could pull right up to your local gas station and fill up.

The other methods use off-board reformers. These systems will have an outside source that extracts hydrogen. Electrolysis of water draws hydrogen but is expensive and time consuming. Reformers like those mentioned above could be placed at gas stations where they would draw the hydrogen from gasoline or methanol.

Hydrogen in internal combustion engines (like BMW has been testing for decades) will probably not take off. Fuel cells (the above mentioned system) are more efficient.
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Old 11-27-2001, 12:54 PM   #5
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It would probably be impossible to make it efficient to get the hydrogen from water on the go, but at home it is possible. The only restricition is the time required. So it would be limited to city trips. Unless a hydrogen infra-structure were developed.

But the on-board refinery is soooo expensive. At a gas station, it might take too long to reform it (in the car, it doesnt require all the hydrogen at once)


In my mind, the ideal way to do it is: At a major river with a power generating station on it, which would generate the power for electrolosis of the water. Then the refined hydrogen could be trucked away to wherever. This would produce no emmissions at all.
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Old 11-27-2001, 08:07 PM   #6
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cant beat a moped.
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Old 11-27-2001, 08:35 PM   #7
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from the TOKYO AUTO SHOW Honda have a new hybrid car which is a 400hp 4 seater and 50mpg. WoW!
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Old 11-27-2001, 11:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tommykaira ZZII
from the TOKYO AUTO SHOW Honda have a new hybrid car which is a 400hp 4 seater and 50mpg. WoW!
got anything more on this car??? Is it in the market against the Prius???
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Old 11-28-2001, 10:48 AM   #9
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There was also an electric limo. It had 500+hp (one motor per wheel), and seated a bunch of people. It was clocked at over 190mph!! I will post more later if you want.
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Old 11-28-2001, 11:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris
There was also an electric limo. It had 500+hp (one motor per wheel), and seated a bunch of people. It was clocked at over 190mph!! I will post more later if you want.
wow, very cool! How'd the battery work that hard/long??? (I'm not allowed to only talk about the cars themselves, so I have to focus on the technology behind them, too )
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Old 11-28-2001, 12:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by saturntangerine


got anything more on this car??? Is it in the market against the Prius???


ok here sum stuff about it http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2001/auto/index.html ..click on the dualnote car....also there is a page about a civic hybrid comin out soon!
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Old 11-28-2001, 12:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tommykaira ZZII

ok here sum stuff about it http://world.honda.com/Tokyo2001/auto/index.html ..click on the dualnote car....also there is a page about a civic hybrid comin out soon!
Thanks!
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Old 11-28-2001, 10:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris
...In my mind, the ideal way to do it is: At a major river with a power generating station on it, which would generate the power for electrolosis of the water. Then the refined hydrogen could be trucked away to wherever. This would produce no emmissions at all.
Why truck it? Why not produce the hydrogen right at the refueling station? Wouldn't that make it cheaper and more plentiful?

As for the on-board reformers, they're already being moved toward production. The first ones are expected to hit the market by 2004 or 2005. The first "affordable" fuel cell cars will follow by the end of the decade and will probably still have reformers on-board.
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Old 11-29-2001, 01:01 PM   #14
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If you produce it at the gas station, you have had to ship the oil from either Texas, Northern Alberta, or the Middle East. THen it needs to be refined to rid it of impurities. This costs money/time (and creates pollution).
Then, you need to refine it at the station. The by-product is carbon, which is not the greatest thing in the world.

With my way, water is turned into hydrogen by flowing water. Then the hydrogen-powered trucks drive it to the station (they will need to weigh more so they dont float up, but they will get super-economy from the light weight). Also, this could be done at any dam, so it would be convenient by being relatively local (1000km instead of 2000km). Then everyone could be happy
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Old 11-29-2001, 02:08 PM   #15
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Help!

I went to the natural gas websites, but all they want is for me to use them as my NG supplier... I need to get a very basic idea of how NG cars run.... Anyone???

Thanks for everything so far! It's great! And thanks in advance for this, too!

~tangie
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