Okay seriously, WHY did they stop making Metro's?

[andrgo]

I honestly don't understand it. Any manual Metro pretty much gets at least 42-45 MPG. If you have the right Metro and the right driving habits, you can get 55-60 MPG.

Auto companies claim how great technology is getting and how they can now make [lousy] hybrids that get 35-40. Too bad..

1. the mileage most hybrids get isn't very impressive compared to Metro's
2. the NiMH batteries are hella expensive and are only guarenteed for an X amount of miles before you have to replace them
3. all hybrids are pretty much "newer" vehicles (made in the last 5-6 years) the insurance is going to be way more expensive than on a Metro that's 10-15 years old

Then there are diesel vehicles too. I suppose next to a Metro, diesels are the best option. Diesel fuel though costs more, I mean not incredibly more when you compare it cent-by-cent but those cents add up and over a year, you'll have spent hundreds possibly thousands of dollars more on diesel than you would have on unleaded fuel for a Geo.


Anyway, back to the question...
WHY the hell did they stop making Metro's? Seriously, are/were they THAT thick-headed?

We all know they were making Metro's back in the early 90's that were TYPICALLY getting 45-50 MPG. Now we're in 2006... I can only imagine that if they REALLY wanted to bring the Metro back, if they incorporated some new technology into it 60-75 MPG could be possible, maybe more.

We're in 2006. Global warming and fuel prices are like 20 times worse than they were just 10, 15 years ago. Why don't they bring the Metro back? And don't even say the words "Chevrolet Aveo" because the mileage that thing gets is BS, I don't care if its a "rebadged Metro" or not.

They need to bring it back. It is so stupid they don't!

Anyone agree?

[mainemetro]

They stopped making and selling metros because there is more money to be made selling bigger vehicles and expensive hybrids.

The North American consumer WANTS a Hummer, but will settle for an Excursion or Highlander - all high-priced vehicles (ie: big profits). Those rare consumers who care about carbon emissions/global warming/fuel economy are lining up to spend $24,0000 on a Prius (ie:big profits)

Us Geo lovers are a tiny minority and the Geo is a cheap littlecar (ie: little profit). It's about economics, not fuel economy.

Automobile manufacturers build cars to make money, period.

Ren

1996 Geo 1L 5sp 3dr

Best Tank = 55MPG
Average = 47MPG

[DOCTORBILL]

I had heard that GM was going to stop making the Suburban, the best
selling vehicle in the History of car making.... still being made though.

Who made that decision?

I worked in Industry for "executives" - marketing types who advance by
ass kissing their superiors....

I have no faith in the intelligence of business executives!

I may be considered a stupid failure because I haven't been a "Captain of Industry",
but I have seen such stonebrained stupidity at the "top" that it is mind boggling!

I also learned that the "bottom line" for the next three months can govern what
executives do and how they decide things.

If something is not an instant success - then it is a failure to them!
Just witness what TV execs did with popular TV series in their beginning phases - dropped them!

We Americans need in instant fix! Immediate satisfaction. At least in
30 minutes - like in TV shows. No 30 minute denoument, change channels to
"I Love Lucy."

Folks will say that that has gotten us where we are today....(in the toilet ?)

The Asians seem to think ahead several years - maybe even decades.
The Janapese did it, now the Chinese are doing that. We aren't.

History will write the conclusion to which "method" has worked best and which
countries will be "third world" in the next few decades.

Anyway - how many Geo's were sold? How many are being rebuilt and reused?
Why? Not for its looks or speed or muscle!
Conspiracy types think the Oil Companies suppress high efficiency vehicle manufacture.
Maybe that's true!

I don't know squat except that I love my little Metro all to Hell!

DoctorBill

PS - I wish I didn't have all these buttons that people can push and get me started
railing about this and that! Such an easy mark....

[Crvett69]

they still make the 92-94 metro new in south america, kind of like how they made the bug in mexico long after they stopped in germany. i was in africa last year and saw a new suzuki in a show room there. it still had the same 3 cyl thats in our old metros here. with the smart car and a few other due to come in to the US and with rising gas prices they may start importing metros again

[DOCTORBILL]

Lettuce all stop a moment and pray for the Metro to come back...

Suzuki, Chevrolet, "Geo" or Juan Valdez de Horno - don't care - just let it come back!

The 3 cylinder one mostly!

Bet it will beat those goofy Hydrogen/Hybrids!

Bet it could be made to run on pure Ethanol, too....just like some of us here on
this Forum can....run on Ethanol, that is.

Maybe someone could modify a Metro to run on Methane gas from Pig Poop!
Carry a big tank of that stuff around in a very small trailer on one wheel in back.

The movement would keep it aggitated and fermenting. Just don't get in any accidents!

Stop at Filling Stations and fill it up from the "Rest Room".....how many mpd ?

Don't they have busses in the Phillipines that run that way?

DoctorBill

[DavidLang]

The only way I would buy a new car right now is if they would re-issue the XFI. Othewise I'll keep patching up my two Metros. "I wish I knew what I know now, when I was younger", I would have bought a new XFI in the early 90's and still be driving it.

[tmaxmetro]

Its all money.

Why did they stop making the Metro? Why have we in North America never really had the opportunity to purchase small cars?

Mitsubishi, Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, etc. have all been making "Kei Vehicles" for years - 660cc or less, very fuel efficient, very durable... but not available in North America.

Suzuki Carry, Honda Acty, Honda Beat, Subura Sombar, Mazda, minica, autozam...... and there are many more Kei vehicles. "Kei Jidosha" = Kei Vehicle = Kei Car = K-car = light vehicle.

Ironically, the Metro is probably the closest thing to - and the only "Kei-like Vehicle" ever sold in North America.




cheers,

[andrgo]

I know people like their big rig Suburbans and all of that, but there's also people like Metro owners that like the opposite. Wouldn't you think GM would actually make some nice profits if they made another Metro-like unleaded-fuel small 3-cylinder car that got 60 MPG? Every person I know at work, and in my family, and my friends all complain and are tired of the gas prices. I know quite a few people that, if a car getting 45+ MPG on unleaded fuel only were to be sold again in the US again, would buy one in a heartbeat no matter how small it is. There are many people in America that only want basic affordable transportation. Personally, all I really care about is getting from point A to point B, which is why I like the Metro so much. I do not want NOR do I need a vehicle that has a V6 or a V8 just because it's bigger. I mean I'm a young single guy and I plan on staying that way for quite a few years to come still, there are many young and older people alike that don't need big cars because they don't have big families or they don't have big things to transport. Sure, having a Suburban or F150 is nice if you've got 2 kids in your family of 4, or if you buy sheets of plywood and whatnot. But there are many people that just need basic transportation, point A to point B.. the most they'll ever have to worry about fitting into their car is groceries, not big-box items or large objects like they'd need to have a truck or SUV for.


I really think myself that GM would have a great target audience of younger people (16 - mid 20's) and older couples (60 +) if they were to bring back the Metro or a Metro-like vehicle with 45+ gas mileage on just unleaded fuel. All most people in these age groups are going to care about is basic "point A to point B" transportation where the only thing they have to transport is their own bodies.


I emailed GM the other day and brougth my idea to their attention (or tried to at least.) I know it's useless, but you'd think they could just make ONE model of a vehicle that gets 45+ MPG on unleaded. I know how you guys talked about how it's all about money and revenue for GM, but obviously people would STILL be buying Suburbans and Blazers up the ying-yang even if they did release just ONE model of a vehicle that got 45+ MPG on unleaded fuel only. I don't see how it would hurt them to just release that ONE model, because obviously they could still keep releasing all of their other traditional "gas-hog" models at the same time. I bet they would have great sales among the younger and older age groups for sure. I just don't understand how reproducing maybe 20,000 Metro's with even better fuel-efficiency than those of the 90's would hurt them at all, I bet it would be an instant success with gas prices at $2.20 - 2.50 right now.


Just my thoughts, but until they wake up and get some more 3-cylinder Metro or Metro-like hatchbacks out on the market, I'll be buying Japanese. I know, I hate to be a traitor to my own country, but I think GM is being a traitor to me by not giving me at least ONE option to have a newer vehicle that gets 45+ MPG on unleaded. But of course I probably won't be getting any new vehicles anytime soon, I'm hoping to purchase a Metro as soon as I can sell my darn '87 F150 (I got it for free from my folks, otherwise I wouldn't be driving it.)

[DOCTORBILL]

I don't believe it is just economics involved in decisions not to sell small economy
cars here in America.

I think it is the "Poppa Daddy Big Bucks" executives who run the Corporations.

It is their mentality and psychology that is running the Corporations.
Their way of thinking permiates from the top to the bottom via ass-kissing suckupness.
Like a rumba dance line with each face in the butt in front al the way to the bottom.

Sounds like I am being silly, but I mean it! I've seen how the big guy rules everything!

It is the same thing that is happening in our Congress, Senate and the Presidency.
A mind set.

Do you know very many of those people who are hurting for money?
Do you think they have trouble meeting their personal bills like you and I do?

When has a President of the United States been elected who was, at the time, "not wealthy"?
Why do most all political candidates have such great personal wealth?
Many have inherited their wealth - Ted Kennedy, George Bush, Nancy Pelosi (I'd name others,
but don't know them) and are even worse because they didn't earn that wealth.

These links were picked at random in a Google search....
http://kasusa.squarespace.com/intere...roll-call.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...tors.finances/
www.forbes.com/2002/10/29/cx_dd_richpols.html

Most all are rich people. People who are not personally concerned with
the price of gasoline. They all drive big vehicles (if they drive at all) or have
VIP Executive Chauffeur Services in Limosines.

My point is - the people now who make decisions in America are not of
the common working class who have money problems.

I remember the First George Bush once saying in an interview on TV that he
had his chauffer pay for some gift he wanted in a store because he never
carries money around in his pocket!.

So we probably will never see a small Geo Metro type automobile again because
those big mucky mucks cannot comprehend why anyone would want one!

Do you really believe that the heads of the Automotive Corporations have
anything in common with you and I other than being human beings and going
to the bathroom, etc. ?

They are above such things - and want it that way. I have personally seen such
arrogance and pride and "holier than thou" behaviour - just in a very small,
insignificant division of a big corporation.

When the "Big Guys" visited us, the arrogance was like fumes coming off of them!
They were very concerned with the Wine List for that evening's big dinner at the
best restaurant in town!

Even if some small privately owned company started making Geo Metro type
vehicles - if it were successful, the big Corporations would buy it out (money talks all
languages - even mine!) and those guys would start putting bigger engines
in the cars and making them larger - you know the drill....

They tell you in TV inteviews that Americans want big vehicles with big, powerful
engines and lots of room. They tell you that! Did you ever hear Lee Iacocca
speak of small cars for the "average" American? He doesn't have any clue what an
average American is....

It takes "Foreign thinking" to make Geo Metro vehicles....Asians and Italians and Frenchmen (yuk).

Many small, economy vehicles are made in Asia and Europe. Why aren't they being sold here...?

We are told they are not safe. Can't compete on the road. Bulldrops! Absurdity!

Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, George Bush types make it the Laws.

People who can buy any top line, big car in a different color for each day of
the week. Buy a new one as each "old one" gets dirty.

Does Bill Gates worry about gas mileage? Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi? George?

They make the Laws and are on Boards of Directors of Big Corporations.

Not you and me.....we can go screw ourselves because we don't 'understand' economics.

Long story short - there has been a big disconnect between those "in power"
in America and those who "work for a living."

In Corporations and in Politics. Kind of like what happened in France and Russia
before their big revolutions a couple of hundred years ago.
Those in control didn't connect with those who made them rich.

History repeats itself....

By the way - I am a conservative, gun carrying capitalist - not a communist!

But our system has changed and is not responsive to the very people it caters to.

Today, the big mucky mucks tell us what we need...not the other way around.

DoctorBill

PS - who does understand - WALMART....and we hate them! Big corporations, the government
and the "Media" consider them the enemy - because they don't conform to "the way."

Now go ahead and tell me I'm full of baloney!

[tmaxmetro]

Actually, you probably will be seeing a new "micro" vehicle available in the U.S. Its the "Smart Car" - which has been available here in Canada for some time. I believe the U.S. model is gas powered - and the Canadian model will continue to be powered by the 3-cyl diesel.

Here, the Smart car is badged as a Mercedes - although I don't know who makes which parts of the vehicle.

cheers,

[andrgo]

@Bill: I get what you mean a little better now, like how the same people in charge of the vehicle corporations are somehow knotted in with the dirty politics who make the laws so we can't have the nice gas-savers here. Thanks, it does make sense to me.

@tmax: is this the car you're talking about?

[tmaxmetro]

@tmax: is this the car you're talking about?

Yup - they're already on the road here - have been for maybe 3 years. If memory serves, it was something about the fact that the car is diesel powered that prevented it from entering the U.S. - hence the Smart U.S. version (is it the "Zip" or "Zap"?) is gas powered.

cheers,

[andrgo]

Originally Posted by tmaxmetro

Yup - they're already on the road here - have been for maybe 3 years. If memory serves, it was something about the fact that the car is diesel powered that prevented it from entering the U.S. - hence the Smart U.S. version (is it the "Zip" or "Zap"?) is gas powered.

cheers,

Yeah, I was reading up on them. It said they're prevented from entering the US because of diesel emissions, of course. How many MPG do you guys get with those things? It said we might have one here in 2008, I hope we do, I'd buy one if I end up not getting a Metro (it's hard finding a decent one around here too.)

[Mike_Van]

I'd have to agree that small cars are NOT favored by car makers, due to small profit margins. The big three became quite comfortable primarily selling SUVs and minivans (the 'light' truck CAFE loophole) in the 1990's, so much so that they became reliant on them for the short-term (do corporations ever think further ahead?) success of their business model.

Another thing to consider is that rising oil prices only really got Americans' attention about 15 months ago, when Katrina hit.

The thing to remember is the extent to which the fuel prices we pay in the U.S. are the result of a significantly distorted market. If I sell you a widget for $1, even though it costs $2 to produce, you're likely to use more widgets., as American consumers do with fuel.
The trick, of course, is that one gets a third party to cover the other costs that the widget purchaser does not pay directly. The third party, in our case, is the payer of Federal income taxes who funds the Pentagon's massive expenditures in the Persian Gulf since FDR made the oil-for-protection deal of the century with Ibn Saud. These costs simply are not reflected at the fuel pump, or in the price of other petroleum products from the region that incurs these costs.

Were the oil companies who do business in that volatile part of the world forced to pay mercenaries to perform oil-supply-route protection services that our armed forces do, you can be quite sure that fuel prices would not be as low as they currently are.
Instead, they have successfully externalized the costs that would (and should, IMHO) be their cost to bear, and pass along to the consumer.
The cost of oil supply-route protection belongs in the price of what the end user buys (plastics, fuel, petrochemicals), so they can adjust their behavior.

Currently there is very little incentive to do so, and I'm not the least bit surprised that the people who incessantly scream for 'free markets' fail to note this massive market distortion and its significant impact on consumer behavior.

/flame-suit ON

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

#1 the Smart is already available, saw one the other day, just over 1/2 as big as a metro. REALLY SMALL.

#2. You will probably will see the result of the gas spike in another 3 years. It takes that long for the big cos to react to market change, especially with large, complicated things like cars. The designers try to predict changes in the marketplace to design to. If you think back to before the gas prices spiked you may remember we had been in an extended period of very low gas prices, it lasted for several years and encouraged the production of very large vehicles. I doubt many predicted the large, sudden spike in gas (oil) prices, and the auto manufactures were definately caught sleeping. They will produce more fuel efficient vehicles, but it will take a few years to catch up.

#3. The oil cos are not solely at fault. They are taking govt. subsidies that they shouldn't be since they are seeing huge profits. They are also not trying very hard to design/ build gas refineries, claiming they can't meet the polution requirements, and this is limiting the supply of gasoline and driving the price up. Unfortunately the biggest cause is traders on the market pushing the cost of a barrel of oil way out of porportion to what our real supply shortage is.

My 2cents anyway,
MMM
Jon