Lets slay some ricers!

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by GTStang

Wow congradulations they built a car 40 years newer that was faster! Hey let's start puttin those old cars on today's tires and see what they run for times. Or better yet let's see that lil Evo rock and roll agianst a 03 Cobra. I'm not defensive I think the evo is impressive but do you really think a 13.06 scares us?

Yes lets compare the Evo to the cobra. For only 5000 dollars more than the lancer you can get a gas chuging, poor handeling, overwight, unreliable, lump of iorn that has been using the same outdated frame since 1978, and what do you get in return an extra 0.15 second in the quateer mile. WAHOOO don't you feel dumb. that Lancer will still be racing long after your Stang is demoted to lawn furnature. By the way for that extra 5000 dollars you could easly turn that Lancer into an 11 second car, so stuf that up your muffler, if it has not already fallen off.
As far as the now tire argument goes the problem with the muscle car lies in the fact that their wheels were too slim, hence bad engineering. And I have seen muscle cars on modern rubber and they are still slow off the line. (bad weight distrabution) Granted the wheel width can be fixed but like any tuning that costs alot of money.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by BlkCamaroSS

Since he likes to compare old to new, how about comparing the Evo to a Yenko Camaro, one with a 427 that ran high 11's off the show room floor, and that was with the outdated rubber.

P.S. I'm waiting for the generalized "that's more displacement/if I had the same amount of money, I could be faster than that" b.s...

That is not off the showroom floor that is out of the tuners garage. I will admit that i have seen some truly impressive American cars, but the fact remains that I have seen some imports that blow anything that we have ever made out of the water. Do you really think that high 11's is impressive for a high priced custom car?? Mercades has one that does the 9.0 seconds STOCK. Read Road and Track sometime. If you do not consider money a factor there are some imporst that would knock your socks off. I do consider money a factor (since I have a limited amount of it) so please tell me for 30k what American car can I get that is faster then the Evo? 0-60 in 4.5 seconds 1/4 mile in 13.06 200ft skidpad 0.97g 60-0 breaking 106ft 600ft slolom at 71mph (faster than the Viper)

[Jared_80]

[quote=rav440]first off JARED the 3 MUSCLE cars you mentioned were not built for drag . they were built for road and circle track racing .
can the evo run a sustained speed of 200mph for 500 miles and stay on the track ?
no ? didnt think so ! the SUPERBIRD can !

The Lancer is not built as a dragster either it was built purely as a rally racer. That 200 mph was not the stock car that was a race car that most likly did not share half its parts with the original car, we bulid racecars and put a stock looking body on it so that we can call it "stock car racing". Get your facts streight before you debate with me.
Besides the stock Toyota GT1 can go 200mph for 24 hours, and that is a REAL stock car the only mods that it had was its stickers!

[BlkCamaroSS]

Whoopidy doo Evo-boy. Keep quoting your C&D numbers to me, magazine racing is for children. When you learn to spell (distribution, straight, Mercedes, imports, handling, iron, furniture, stuff), which will add to your credibility, I'll care...

There are many mustangs and Camaros that are still owning the streets, regardless of how old they are. The ones being used as lawn furniture were not taken care of like a car should. Your arguement that since it's domestic, it's unreliable is unfounded. Lets see your Evo in anywhere from 10-35 years, and see what problems it's seen in that amount of time. Saying that it's reliable when it's been out only a short while is down right retarded.

BTW, I got my Camaro for 26k, and in the right hands, it'll own your Evo. I've done about 1k worth of mods to it, so I still got three to go to get to $30k. We'll see then how well 13.06 stands up considering my quarter mile time is a year and a half old. 13.06 was in the right hands with that Evo. The F-bodies in the right hands have run high 12's stock.

As for that Mercedes, of which no specific car was mentioned, for the price of that car I could probably have a Z06 and several gorgeous F-bodies from any of the 4 generations, not worth it.

And you're wrong. A 427 Yenko is what you could buy straight from Yenko Chevrolet, right off the showroom floor. Same with the Berger, Dickey, Baldwin Motion Camaros as well. They all have VIN's that identify them as such.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by BlkCamaroSS

Whoopidy doo Evo-boy. Keep quoting your C&D numbers to me, magazine racing is for children. When you learn to spell (distribution, straight, Mercedes, imports, handling, iron, furniture, stuff), which will add to your credibility, I'll care...

There are many mustangs and Camaros that are still owning the streets, regardless of how old they are. The ones being used as lawn furniture were not taken care of like a car should. Your arguement that since it's domestic, it's unreliable is unfounded. Lets see your Evo in anywhere from 10-35 years, and see what problems it's seen in that amount of time. Saying that it's reliable when it's been out only a short while is down right retarded.

BTW, I got my Camaro for 26k, and in the right hands, it'll own your Evo. I've done about 1k worth of mods to it, so I still got three to go to get to $30k. We'll see then how well 13.06 stands up considering my quarter mile time is a year and a half old. 13.06 was in the right hands with that Evo. The F-bodies in the right hands have run high 12's stock.

As for that Mercedes, of which no specific car was mentioned, for the price of that car I could probably have a Z06 and several gorgeous F-bodies from any of the 4 generations, not worth it.

And you're wrong. A 427 Yenko is what you could buy straight from Yenko Chevrolet, right off the showroom floor. Same with the Berger, Dickey, Baldwin Motion Camaros as well. They all have VIN's that identify them as such.

You really don't know much do you? The Lancer has been out for 11 years and the are holding up very well. If you paid attentin to what has been going on in the automotive world you would know that. Yes I do think that most American cars are unreliable just read JD Power and chack the mechanical reliability for yourself. Did you get your car used because I know that new Camaros cost over 30k (with a V8) if you did get a new one for that price you got one heck of a deal. By the way if you think that we Americans have built a better sports car for the money name me one that can beat the Evo in at leased half of the proformance catagories that I mentioned for under 30k. I bet that you cannot. Don't argue with me based on your ideas give me facts and numbers because thay are not subject to your bias oppion, that would make your argument creditable. Don't mind my spelling I write in a hurry because I have other things to do.

[glenn82]

Originally Posted by Jared_80

Besides the stock Toyota GT1 can go 200mph for 24 hours, and that is a REAL stock car the only mods that it had was its stickers!

You know, I have only once in my life seen a le mans prototype/GT1 beside the track, by chance it was a toyota GT1, it was in paris in the main dealership from toyota. As a show car. There are people that could buy one and call it a stock car if you would like, the way Joest bought porsche prototypes to race in le mans.
There is one in recent history however that could do what you claim, the Mclaren F1, but i doubt those where pure stock cars they used in le mans.
For that matter, in that level of competition there isn't a single car i would call a "stock" car.
The EVO they use in the WRC won't share that much parts with the showroom EVO, there wouldn't be much of a crisis here in the belgian rally championchip if that where true.

[BlkCamaroSS]

I see, I'm biased because I drive an SS? Hmm, I think not. My first car was a 90 Integra GS, my brothers own a 99 Civic Si and a 98 Prelude SH, and my mom drives a G35 Sedan. You can't make a case that I don't know what I'm talking about...

Base Price for a Z28 in 2002: $22,830
Hp/weight ratio: 1hp to 11.09 lbs
310.0 bhp @ 5200 rpm
340.0 ft lbs @ 4000 rpm
EPA City/Hwy: 19/28 mpg
0-60 mph: 5.1 sec
0-100 mph: 11.8 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.5 sec @ 107 mph
Skidpad: .87g
Top Speed: 160 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 120 ft
Slalom Speed: 63.0 mph

With seven grand to spare, the choice is simple...

As for your child-like comments about me knowing nothing about the automotive world, thanks for quoting history to me. I didn't realize that since there was an Evo "VIII" that that would mean that there were seven others before it. The Evo VIII is what you spoke of in all of those categories, and no it hasn't been out for eleven years. It's not had any time to prove how reliable it is, especially when it's run hard.

[Jared_80]

As for your child-like comments about me knowing nothing about the automotive world, thanks for quoting history to me. I didn't realize that since there was an Evo "VIII" that that would mean that there were seven others before it. The Evo VIII is what you spoke of in all of those categories, and no it hasn't been out for eleven years. It's not had any time to prove how reliable it is, especially when it's run hard.[/quote]

The Evolution 8 has the same engine (the awsome 4g-63) and same driveline setup as it did in 1992, and it is very well proven. Just ask any street or rally racer who has been to Japan, or England. Unlike our circle track racing in rally racing they use the cars original platform (with safty mods) and they still have to be street legal, they even have to drive their race cars to the next event to qualify. The Lancer has won the WRC several times, how can you call that unproven? If your SS is that much better go race it in the WRC and see how well you do aginst the "ricers". Really try it, they hold WRC events in America now, I would bet anything that you could not beat any real cars no matter how many mods you put on your car. As far as those numbers you quoted on the Camaro those are not impressive at all! .87g the Ford Focus does that! That slolom speed is not even close to what a proformance car should do, I think that Mazdas new economy car can do that. Face it all that the Camaro can do right is drive in a stright line, and even then it loses to the Evo. I am not sure that you are right about the base price of the Z28 I think that you are quoting the 6 cylinders price because I priced one on the MSRP and a 2003 V8 was over 30k without options. Besides if the Camaro was such a great car why did they quit building it? Because they knew that they could not compete with the new cars coming from Japan.

[Jared_80]

Originally Posted by glenn82

You know, I have only once in my life seen a le mans prototype/GT1 beside the track, by chance it was a toyota GT1, it was in paris in the main dealership from toyota. As a show car. There are people that could buy one and call it a stock car if you would like, the way Joest bought porsche prototypes to race in le mans.
There is one in recent history however that could do what you claim, the Mclaren F1, but i doubt those where pure stock cars they used in le mans.
For that matter, in that level of competition there isn't a single car i would call a "stock" car.
The EVO they use in the WRC won't share that much parts with the showroom EVO, there wouldn't be much of a crisis here in the belgian rally championchip if that where true.

The GT1 has the same wight same hp and same engine block same aerodynamics and the same frame as its racing brother. it is for all practical purposes the same car. (other than the tires) And yes the Evos that they race are much more stock than our "stock car racing" they have to be built on the same unibody and have to be street legal, emmissions, lights, noise levels, everything. The only reason that I brought up the GT1 is because the muscleheads were quoting numbers on factory modified cars saying that money was not an issue. So what is the problem with using a million dollar car for their compareison?

[BlkCamaroSS]

You should stop quoting that 1/4 mile number as gospel for a Evo VIII. The average joe will not attain that number, just as I haven't attained a sub 12 second quarter mile with my car. All things considered, like I said previously, a high 12 quarter mile beats the number you quoted for the Evo, therefore it is not better in that category. Look here:

http://www.engine-power.com/mitsubis...tion_viii.html

Your numbers quoted for the quarter time are more than 4 tenths faster. The stats for a Z28 are equal to or better than the Evo VIII, and that doesn't include a fully optioned SS with the Bilstein suspension.

As for the comments about those daily-driven WRC cars, can you imagine how many times those engines have been rebuilt, and what the budgets of those teams are??? Certainly not anything close to a normal human being's budget. Hardly anything to be impressed about. The reason I couldn't beat the other drivers, regardless of manufacturer, is due to backing that they have, and I would not, not to the cars themselves.

When did I use the word ricer? There's huge differences between import enthusiasts and ricers. Using this word in any context generally denotes the trendiness of the times, and the age of the individual.

It's impossible for you to have priced a 2003 Camaro, since there are none that exist. Production finished August 29th, 2002, for all Camaros and Firebirds due to the fact that they did not meet 2004 crash safety standards. It had absolutely nothing to do with the cars coming from Japan. You've just demonstrated your lack of automotive knowledge.

Here's a page that gives a breakdown of the prices of the Camaro lineup:

http://www.123review.com/reviews/che...ary_specs.html

It shows the price of a base model Z28 Coupe, very close to the number I quoted you before. You can find one vastly under that now. Still the best overall performance buy you can get.

[glenn82]

WRC cars have to be road legal for connection stages over public roads, if they are however te same car, lets see you make some jumps at race speed. And same noise level? There is someone around here driving an R22B, its loud, but not WRC loud.
American definition of "stock" car is just, hmm, lets call it weird, 2 years ago there was a championchip next to ETCC that i would consider stock car racing, the gearshift was louder then the engine .
And for the GT1, if it ever was for sale (never knew that), its more the other way around, it's a race car without the stickers, it was developed for lemans (unlike the Mclaren F1).
Wasn't a yenko much more affordable then the GT1, Mclaren or any supercar of today?

[BlkCamaroSS]

Right now you could find one for about $35K in good condition. Back in the day, they sold for just under $4k. That was alot of money then, but for that, you got 11's from the factory. Look below...

http://www.fast-autos.net/chevrolet/...nkocamaro.html

[MexSiR]

Just fights...
Everybody has their own opinion on different cars, if one type of car was the best one, everybody would have it, why are there so many different kinds of cars, because there are different types and likes....
American Cars have awesome models, just like japanese and european

[mycivic]

[Jared_80]

Your numbers quoted for the quarter time are more than 4 tenths faster. The stats for a Z28 are equal to or better than the Evo VIII, and that doesn't include a fully optioned SS with the Bilstein suspension.

As for the comments about those daily-driven WRC cars, can you imagine how many times those engines have been rebuilt, and what the budgets of those teams are???

When did I use the word ricer? There's huge differences between import enthusiasts and ricers. Using this word in any context generally denotes the trendiness of the times, and the age of the individual.

It's impossible for you to have priced a 2003 Camaro, since there are none that exist. Production finished August 29th, 2002, for all Camaros and Firebirds due to the fact that they did not meet 2004 crash safety standards. It had absolutely nothing to do with the cars coming from Japan. You've just demonstrated your lack of automotive knowledge.


First off there is a 2003 Camaro look it up yourself. (www.edmunds.com) They always build the next year model at the end of that year. Every real enthusiast knows that. Secondly you assumption that those WRC cars bolw alot of engines is wrong I have yet to see a single blow without an crash being involved. Don't beleve me look it up for yourself, before you assume anything. I will admit that I was wrong on one thing though I looked up the base price for the Z28 and it is in the high 22k range, but that does not include any go fast goodies like a limited slip or TCS, that is all extra. But you are right for the exrta 6 grand (not 7) that that you would save you could easly get a Camaro to completly smoke an American spec Lancer (Though the Jap-spec Evolution RS might still beat it) But you would still have to consider the loss of mechanical reliability that tuning an already somewhat unreliable car would bring about.