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Old 11-14-2010, 07:38 PM   #1
sverker
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LIM + lifters

Hi everybody,
I'm planning for changing the imfamous intake gasket on my '97 Trans sport (the name for the Venture in Europe). Mine is loosing coolant slowly and although I don't know where it's leeking an oil analyze didn't show any signs of antifreeze in the oil so it's not going there. The engine is running perfectly fine without being rough at any rpm and no smoke so no signs of a bad head or head gasket. I've read the looong thread on changing LIM gasket and it has provided valuable information.

It's probably not that urgent to change the gasket but I rather do it when I can chose a time for it than risk getting stuck in the middle of nowhere with the family in the car.. The car has close to 140 000 km (87 000 miles) so it hasn't gone that far yet.

I also have a soft ticking noice which sounds like a lifter, it's only there when idling on cold engine. Since I'm doing the LIM gasket as I understand it the lifters will then also be accessible so it's probably a good idea to change them too. A question, should I change all or just try to find the ticking one? I think I'd go for changing all, 12 lifters (correct number?) is more than half of the total parts cost but it's more important to be able to complete the work without having to stop for ordering more parts and if one is ticking then probably soon another will too..

On my shopping list from rockauto is the FEL-PRO improved gasket kit MS98003T, don't know which of the other kits has the metal gasket.. New bolts will be used as well.

In addition I'm planning to change the following when on the job:
* spark plugs and wires
* thermostat
* radiator cap
* pcv valve
* fule injector o-rings (is it correct that it should be 12? The FEL-PRO kit of 4 rings says that 3 sets are needed for one car)
* radiator hoses
* oil pump seal
* serpentine belt (need to figure out if I have the 105 amp or 140 amp alternator)
* water pump was recently changed by prev owner so I'll skip that one
* oil & filter engine
* oil & filter transmission

Any other suggestions of things that should be done at the same time? Any special tools needed except the torque wrench?

When you changed your LIM gasket, anyone experienced problems to get it to seal? Did you apply silicone on all surfaces before applying the gasket?

/Sverker
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:38 PM   #2
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Re: LIM + lifters

My LIM I used silicone on the valleys.
Your list looks good.
Might go for all the lifters, before you tear down, might run a quart of trans fluid thru the engine oil (have to loose a qt of oil first.)
Replace the LIM gasket ASAP. This is not a laughing matter, could cost you an engine if you wait too long.
Here in the USA the Transport is a Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Venture.

BTW, if you have rear AIR/HEAT it will usually have the 140 Amp Alternator, if you dont have the extra HVAC unit, it has the lower one.
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:15 AM   #3
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Re: LIM + lifters

Are you sure it's the lifters causing that noise. The Venture engine is know for what is called " I believe" piston ring slap. It sounds like a lifter going bad and it is ONLY when first started in the morning and goes away when the engine warms up. Both my 99 and 04 Venture makes that noise, I believe it's quite common and basically harmless. My 99 Venture did it for 205kmi. till I sold it. If you think that might be it, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 11-15-2010, 07:06 AM   #4
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Re: LIM + lifters

You will need the crow's foot wrench (10mm) to remove and later reinstall the side bolts on the intake manifold. That's a short flat box wrench that connect at right angles to a socket shaft. Two of the LIM bolts are recessed under the edge of the casting and difficult to reach with this.
Also plan to clean out the EGR valve while you have it all apart.
Sounds like your considered the project pretty well.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:30 PM   #5
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Re: LIM + lifters

Hi
good suggestions. In preparing for this task I've read more or less everything in this forum on the subject and it has been a great help. Since I'm not native English speeking I need to check a few details to make sure I understood all

Lesterl: How long do you suggest to run the engine with ATF oil? You write that you used silicon on "the valleys". Looking at http://www.d-tips.com/SpecialPhotos/34bord16.jpg (from http://www.d-tips.com/general/articl...icle.aspx?id=2), which is also is the same as is shown in the Haynes manual, it looks like they only put silicon on this specific surface at both ends of the block. I.e. not on the surfaces where the gasket meets the block and the mainfold. Correct?

paprius4030: No, I'm not sure it's a lifter. I found a suggestion in Haynes now how to find out so I'll test that. There is also a description there on how to investigate if they are bad when taken out.

It's probably overkill to change all as it's most likely only one that may be stuck, but on the other hand they are not very expensive.. I'll think a bit more on that one.. I can buy lifters here in Sweden, but it cost more for only the lifters than buying all the needed parts for this job from rockauto including the lifers, shipping and taxes...

merc81: crow's foot wrench, is that this one? http://www.jula.se/nyckelset-krakfotter-10-delar-124395

Yes, sounds like a good idea to also clean the EGR. I don't have the rear heater so I probably have the 105A alternator which is unusual here. (thinking about moving over the rear heater and vents from a spare part car)

One more thing, I've noticed sometimes that in the speed around 75 km/h (~ 45 mph) then the tranny want to switch too early to the higher gear which gives some protests. If I accelerate then it switch down gently and then at higher speed again to the higher gear without problem. That is the only time it happens, not at other speeds. As I understand it it's a 4T60 in my '97 and then according to Haynes there is a vacum thing that could cause that behaviour. Thoughts? It's time to give it new filter and oil anyway.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:02 PM   #6
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Re: LIM + lifters

Good links for the repair, looks like you may need a new vac modulator for the transmission, mine is an adjustable unit....
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:37 AM   #7
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Re: LIM + lifters

Yes, that's the type of wrench you will need. Try to borrow one as they only come in a set here and cost $$$. I've never really needed one before this job, but I have done this three times before and I snapped one of the bolts once because I wasn't using that crow's foot wrench.
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Old 11-17-2010, 09:54 AM   #8
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Re: LIM + lifters

The set that I linked to is just $20 so that's one of the least problems on this job..
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:20 AM   #9
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Re: LIM + lifters

I've also kicked myself later for not having changed out those small coolant hosts and the O ring under the throttle assembly. Its impossible to change while assembled and those hoses fail around 120k miles or so. I had to go back and change them and it wasn't fun.

The rtv sealant comes with the kit from rockauto. Its only used at the ends as you say and the link you posted looks exactly like what the job should look like when done.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:46 PM   #10
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Re: LIM + lifters

What o-ring under throttle assembly? I can't find which that is on rockauto. I've already added the o-rings for the injectors to the list.

Is the rtv sealant tube that's included with the kit big enough or do I need to get some extra?
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:10 PM   #11
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Re: LIM + lifters

My Felpro Permadry Plus kit came with a small tube and it was BARELY enough..... Never hurts to have some RTV around IMHO......
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:24 AM   #12
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Re: LIM + lifters

The O ring I mentioned would not be in any kit for the LIM repair. Its the O ring that seals the coolant line that runs from the manifold under the throttle assembly and out to the heater.


Look to the right side in the photo. The black pipe exiting the manifold uses an O ring to seal and you should replace that while you're in there.
Below are the two intake lines that should be changed:
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:30 AM   #13
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Re: LIM + lifters

Ok, do you know part numbers or what they are called on Rockauto?

I've already added something called Thermostat Housing Gasket FEL-PRO Part #70799. There is something they call Thermostat Seal but the thermostat is including that.

There is also something called Water Outlet Gasket FEL-PRO Part #35614, could that be the one?

Do you have any suggestion of part number for the hoses? The left one looks like a straight so then an universal hose would do but the right one looks curved.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:53 AM   #14
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Re: LIM + lifters

I found the right angle hose on rockauto's site via a photo. Because I purchased half a dozen hoses at the same time (see my post over on the silhouette forum about hoses) I can't say what the part number was, but the photo was accurate.
The water outlet gasket sounds like it could be correct, but I didn't purchase that one--I had one that fit from a freon replacement seal kit. It has nothing to do with the thermostat however.
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:21 AM   #15
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Re: LIM + lifters

Hi,
found it. It's the hoses for throttle house pre-heat which connects to by-pass line. I'm changing the hose in the other end of that one as well, just a few dollars.
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