Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Panoz > GTRA / GTWS / GTS
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-28-2008, 04:36 PM   #46
NZGTRA17
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 8
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra4B
Interesting... you didn't happen to weigh it before the mods did you? I'm going to weigh it before the motor work and after.

From what I've read on here it seems that the 2550 was about 200lbs off of reality. They're more like 2700-2800lbs.
No unfortunately I didnt have scales handy prior to mods. I thought that we would have lost between 75 - 100lbs as we also did a lot of trimming around the car (door hinges etc etc). We also added some weight back with some additional reinforcement mods around suspension etc. For actual racing I expect to lose another 40 - 50lbs when seat removed and glass screen replaced with carbon unit.

Having a car as strong as these with all heavy duty running gear weighing around 2550lbs is still OK in my book. I am happy with the additional chassis bracing as during a 6 hour race it is hard to avoid all cars that take aim on you!!
NZGTRA17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 04:46 PM   #47
Cobra4B
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Cobra4B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Posts: 1,396
Thanks: 71
Thanked 61 Times in 56 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

^ Did you do extra modding above/beyond the GTS chassis or did you car not have the extra chassis reinforcements the GTS has that the Panoz people posted up about?

Our car had/has the reinforcements allready on it. I'm adding the thicker rear trailing arms and the rear swaybar kit to go w/ the higher rate springs and fresh shocks.

Oddly... my springs are red (H&R) and the shocks are yellow whereas yours are black.
Cobra4B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 04:52 PM   #48
NZGTRA17
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 8
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra4B
^ Did you do extra modding above/beyond the GTS chassis or did you car not have the extra chassis reinforcements the GTS has that the Panoz people posted up about?

Our car had/has the reinforcements allready on it. I'm adding the thicker rear trailing arms and the rear swaybar kit to go w/ the higher rate springs and fresh shocks.

Oddly... my springs are red (H&R) and the shocks are yellow whereas yours are black.
The car had most of the chassis mods bar the reinforcing plates that prevent flex of the members that the front arms attach to and the diff braces near the bottom shock attachment. These have now all been added.

I am leaving the rear bar until I can prove on the track that it is needed. I suspect that the main reason I may want to run will be to manage handling between full and near empty tank. 275lbs weight difference is quite a bit to manage. Given this, if I do add a rear bar I will need to make it cockpit adjustable for it to be worthwhile.

The springs on the front Brian are aftermarket 550lb units hence colour. The shocks are aluminium bodied, I suspect your yellow ones are probably steel bodied.
NZGTRA17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 07:13 PM   #49
panozracing
AF Enthusiast
 
panozracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 718
Thanks: 13
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

I own 2 GTS's (my brother and I) and they both weigh 2775 plus or minus a bit. Now that is dry (no gas) but all the engine fluids. That is with a 351 (dart iron block) stroked to 427 with 225cc AFR heads and a 3 stage drysump pump with a 4 gallon drysump tank. The setup holds about 5 gallons of oil and that is in the total weight above. I also have much bigger wheels and tires (305/645-18 FR and 325/705-18 rear) so I am sure that adds some weight. I forgot that I also have a lexan windshield. I dont see how the car could get to the 2500 range...

When my engine builder had the engine on the dyno he told us the headman long tube headers were EXCELLANT and built great hp too. He even bought a spare set I had for other Ford customers he builds engines for. This is also why Panoz upgraded to this (they cars did not originally get designed with the long tube header sometime in 2003 it started...i think).

We run dual magnaflow mufflers with an offset design (exit is lower then the entrance) and I love the sound. I wish it was a little more agressive but I like the deep rumble. Now it sounded better without any muffler but it was LOUD! The muffler note is deff. not aggressive like an LS motor but I take care of that with the results. We run the motor sometimes at 500fwhp and sometimes at 600fwhp with a 6500 MSD chip (we just change the carb for the 100hp increase ). So I have never been told there is no GO from our cars (even when we had a Panoz motor 450 fwhp). I am surprised NZGTRA17said that.....

Most of the racing we have been doing since we got the cars (2004) has been 30min - 90 min. racing with an occasional 3hr. race. ITs hot in the car but isnt every race car plus I live in Fl and its always hot outside too. We use a cool suit and helmet blower to compensate.
__________________
Brian G.
2000 Panoz GTS #420
NASA ST1
427ci Stroker
panozracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 07:18 PM   #50
David Eastman
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Martinez, Georgia
Posts: 314
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

I have heard that Roeblings sound meter is set at 108 db. We have't had any problems there or at Barber.

David
David Eastman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 07:27 PM   #51
NZGTRA17
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 8
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

I dont see how the car could get to the 2500 range...

headman long tube headers were EXCELLANT and built great hp too.

So I have never been told there is no GO from our cars (even when we had a Panoz motor 450 fwhp). I am surprised NZGTRA17said that.....


The 2500lb range would be hard for you to get to with the 9.5" deck Dart block. Remember the GTRA cars are the shorter 8.2" deck height std Ford block. There is probably around 100lb difference here alone. The dry sump systemn adds quite a bit of weight to. Note that I have also had to do a lot of other work to get down to the 2570lbs.......!!

I am sure that the GTS Hedman headers are a great unit. Unfortunately they are set up for the 9.5" deck height 351 engine so I would have had to modify then recoat them for my application. Given that I live on the other side of the world it was more cost effective for me to build my own headers to suit my car/engine configuration & application. Actually I used Hedman header 1 3/4" flanges (very nice units) and a weld up kit (350 Chev to get 1 3/4" primaries) as part of the sytem that I fabricated for my car. Made life a lot easier but still a heap of fabrication required to fit up the GTRA application.

The "all sound and no go" comment refers to GTRA's which to put it politely are a little under powered for any serious track work (but fulfilled their driver training duties admirably I am sure). I did not dyno my car prior to modifying it but would be very surprised if it would have been over 200 RWHP.
NZGTRA17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 08:24 PM   #52
Cobra4B
AF Enthusiast
Thread starter
 
Cobra4B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Posts: 1,396
Thanks: 71
Thanked 61 Times in 56 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Yep... Brian our GTRAs spent their former lives as driving school cars with stock 5.0s. Their only mods were/are a K&N filter, electric fan, FRPP shorties w/ no cats and sidepipes and deletion of all emissions/smog etc. Being that they were rated at 225 ponies in a mustang I'd guess they're around 240 crank uncorked.

The car is downright slow.
__________________
Brian B.
Panoz GTRA - LS1 swap in progress
#4 Z06 - NASA ST3/TT3
Cobra4B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 09:03 PM   #53
Wess-RA
AF Regular
 
Wess-RA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Los Altos Hills, California
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

N2GTRA17 Awesome work all around. Hey this is technically breaking the thread but I see you are still using the Konis and never changed to Penske shocks. Did you do the switch out of moving the 350# springs to the rear and adding new 550# springs to the front. If so was there a significant improvement to lessen the rollover effect? Sorry about the diversion to suspension.
__________________
Uwe W.

Panoz GTS
Porsche 996 Turbo
Wess-RA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 09:15 PM   #54
Wess-RA
AF Regular
 
Wess-RA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Los Altos Hills, California
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Geez did I get behind-That's a lot of posting in an afternoon. I am still way back commenting on the pics. A lot happened while I wasn't looking. N2GTRA17-It looks like with all posts going on you in fact confirmed my question regarding the 550#springs-how much did it help?
__________________
Uwe W.

Panoz GTS
Porsche 996 Turbo
Wess-RA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 09:24 PM   #55
NZGTRA17
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 8
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wess-RA
Geez did I get behind-That's a lot of posting in an afternoon. I am still way back commenting on the pics. A lot happened while I wasn't looking. N2GTRA17-It looks like with all posts going on you in fact confirmed my question regarding the 550#springs-how much did it help?
Hi there, yes I swapped the 350's out to the rear when I put the 550's in the front. I did this swap after only doing 10 odd laps in the car, as it was scraping the LH side panel off on one of the long sweepers on my home track with the std springs.

The spring swap made a big difference to the feel of the car, much flatter cornering. I went up on front and rear shock settings as well which also helped. Around 1.5 secs were shaved off lap times but some of this was probably due to added familiarity with the car as well.

I expect that the car would have been quicker again on these springs had it been aligned and corner weighted. We ran it straight out of the container initially and found in the weekend that it lacked negative camber and the toe was not quite there either.
NZGTRA17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 09:50 PM   #56
Wess-RA
AF Regular
 
Wess-RA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Los Altos Hills, California
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Kel-Thanks for the spring info. I had heard of people doing that but someone warned me about getting the car out of balance. Did you add the rear stabilizer as well-is it necessary for proper balance? Sorry guys I won't stay on this topic as it's the wrong thread.
__________________
Uwe W.

Panoz GTS
Porsche 996 Turbo
Wess-RA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 10:03 PM   #57
NZGTRA17
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 8
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wess-RA
Kel-Thanks for the spring info. I had heard of people doing that but someone warned me about getting the car out of balance. Did you add the rear stabilizer as well-is it necessary for proper balance? Sorry guys I won't stay on this topic as it's the wrong thread.
No I havent added the sway bar yet. I want to do some track testing with uprated engine and various fuel levels first. The car was fine to drive with springs changed and no sway bar. You can vary the feel of the car at the track with the shocks even if it is not to your liking post the spring change. I am only running on Dunlop D11 compound 240 wide slicks at this stage so will not be developing the same G's that a GTS with 280's will be. Again a reason not to use the bar just yet. May still prove to be a useful tuning tool though.
NZGTRA17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 11:12 PM   #58
panozracing
AF Enthusiast
 
panozracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 718
Thanks: 13
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZGTRA17
I am only running on Dunlop D11 compound 240 wide slicks at this stage so will not be developing the same G's that a GTS with 280's will be. Again a reason not to use the bar just yet. May still prove to be a useful tuning tool though.
FYI...the ALMS team we took with is to NASA nationals told us they dont run a rear swaybar on their ALMS GT2 car......and.....he secretly disconnected ours and it was working. I am shocked to say it but I dont think it does much.....need better data aquisition to really proove it....
__________________
Brian G.
2000 Panoz GTS #420
NASA ST1
427ci Stroker
panozracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 01:50 AM   #59
NZGTRA17
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Auckland
Posts: 839
Thanks: 8
Thanked 60 Times in 53 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by panozracing
FYI...the ALMS team we took with is to NASA nationals told us they dont run a rear swaybar on their ALMS GT2 car......and.....he secretly disconnected ours and it was working. I am shocked to say it but I dont think it does much.....need better data aquisition to really proove it....
Thanks Brian. I did secretly 'obtain' a bar to try on the car, but my helper (a very experienced race car engineer) threatened to throw in the towel if I fitted the bar without proper testing........(or team consultation)!! He hates sway bars and strongly prefers to get the suspension tune correct with as little bar as possible.

Not sure what size tank that you run Brian, mine is 32 US gal. This equates to around 275 lbs when full, so a big weight transition from full to empty. Be interested to see how you find the handling starts out then changes as the fuel load reduces? I have yet to test this but not far off now.
NZGTRA17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 07:51 AM   #60
panozracing
AF Enthusiast
 
panozracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 718
Thanks: 13
Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Re: Turning in my man card... I want to make the GTRA quieter... best method?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZGTRA17
Not sure what size tank that you run Brian, mine is 32 US gal. This equates to around 275 lbs when full, so a big weight transition from full to empty. Be interested to see how you find the handling starts out then changes as the fuel load reduces? I have yet to test this but not far off now.
We have the 32 US gal. tank as well. I know its a lot of weight but honestly I never noticed the weight transfer during the long races. Of course we only run the exact amount of fuel we need for the race and pump down the extra after each race. So the only time its full is for 60 min. and longer races which only happens 2-3 times a year (I only did 1 90 min. last year).
__________________
Brian G.
2000 Panoz GTS #420
NASA ST1
427ci Stroker
panozracing is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD


Bookmarks
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Panoz > GTRA / GTWS / GTS

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:14 PM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts