Pocher F40 WIP

[btdada]

thats just joyfull to read your thread...

[bmwmech1]

Originally Posted by guiwee

I dont even know what to say but wwwwwwwwwoooooowwwwww.One thing i was wondering though if its not to forward but how much does something like this cost?...Im not trying to step on your toes or anything,just nosy i guess..How does one even start a project like this?

Okay, first things first... you have to be a little bit crazy to even think about a project like this, which I guess I am. Secondly, this kit continue to become more and more scarce, so cutting one up is even more crazy. Lastly, the hours involved are really hard to pinpoint, so placing a cost on doing this build is nearly impossible. I may offer it for sale when it's done, but I don't know what the market for it will bring. A collector may want it and how much would they be willing to offer for it? Who knows... but I know to duplicate the frame alone would take around 250-300 hours, which at a minor rate of $20/hr would figure around $6K for the frame. Alot of money...

BM1

[ScratchBuilt]

Firstly, I can only echo everyone else's positive comments about this project - it's a real pleasure to follow. It seems that you're able to make fairly rapid progress despite minor distractions such as a full-time job, etc! How do you do it? You only sleep for two hours a night, perhaps?!

Following the previous post, BM1, I can only add a few comments from my own experience. Just how do you put a value on a project like this, even if only for insurance purposes? My 917-10 was somewhere over 1300 hours all-in: could you justify charging £ 20 or $ 20 an hour if someone wanted to buy it? Surely not, but it's a one-off piece of work, only to be repeated if I can face the prospect of spending another two years of my spare time doing it (and how can I do that when there's all those other projects lined up...?)

Personally, the cost of the raw materials is very small compared with what I've spent on books, magazines, etc, over the past seven or eight years that I've been doing these models. I guess if you're building from a box (at either end of the price-range!) it's slightly different in that you have an initial spend on the kit, plus whatever detail extras you add, plus however many hours it takes. If you can work on several at once, even better!

I've never approached my modelling thinking about the financial end value - the process itself is the interesting bit, researching and learning about the cars and the history, working out new ways of creating the shapes and structures. My day-job pays the bills (and I get to spend the day dealing with race-cars, too), the modelling is something I do for pleasure.

Sorry to have gone on a bit, but the subject of 'value' isn't something that I've seen mentioned too much (if at all) on any of the threads I've followed - apologies if I've said something I shouldn't.

Keep up the good work, BM1 - we need more 1/8 models!

ScratchBuilt

[Scalemodelfanatic]

Originally Posted by bmwmech1

Okay, first things first... you have to be a little bit crazy to even think about a project like this, which I guess I am. Secondly, this kit continue to become more and more scarce, so cutting one up is even more crazy. Lastly, the hours involved are really hard to pinpoint, so placing a cost on doing this build is nearly impossible. I may offer it for sale when it's done, but I don't know what the market for it will bring. A collector may want it and how much would they be willing to offer for it? Who knows... but I know to duplicate the frame alone would take around 250-300 hours, which at a minor rate of $20/hr would figure around $6K for the frame. Alot of money...

BM1

Well I can say for sure that the price tag for this model when compleated could "easy" surpass the $12,000 price range and UP!!! It all depends on the collector market, but for the amount of work, which is prototipical correct to the 1/1 car, the cost of the....can we say "base kit" pocher model,materials and must important part of all, the "professional craftmanship" all that adds to the final estimate cost......also the fact that the lucky owner of this model(if ever sold) will have an "one off/one of a kind" masterpiece model.

Fred

[guiwee]

umm i didnt mean how much for the build..i guess what i really meant was your material cost.i read youbrought 50 or so bolts at $1.00 apiece and thats just for some bolts or some such. I build just 1/24 cars with some p/e occasionally it can cost me up to $100 when im done.. Not including the kit cost..elect connectors.decals..braided hose..fittings and such..anyway you get the idea...i think its great that you are able to indulge in your hobby like that...hell ..i struggle just trying to wire an engine.so when i see a masterpiece like this its truly awe-inspiring for those of lesser skill.at least me anyway..lol

[bmwmech1]

Originally Posted by guiwee

umm i didnt mean how much for the build..i guess what i really meant was your material cost.i read youbrought 50 or so bolts at $1.00 apiece and thats just for some bolts or some such. I build just 1/24 cars with some p/e occasionally it can cost me up to $100 when im done.. Not including the kit cost..elect connectors.decals..braided hose..fittings and such..anyway you get the idea...i think its great that you are able to indulge in your hobby like that...hell ..i struggle just trying to wire an engine.so when i see a masterpiece like this its truly awe-inspiring for those of lesser skill.at least me anyway..lol

Okay, sorry to have taken a left turn there in my response... material costs, not including the kit, are pretty high, as well. I would estimate the cost of brass for the frame to be around $50-75, I have about $300-400 in brass nuts, bolt, washers, probably $200-300 in photoetch pieces, another $60 for the slicks, $75 for the decal set and who knows how much in little stuff or what the finishing costs will climb to. It's got to be around $1K for materials, I guess... kind of makes me wince to really add it up! Yuk!

BM1

[bmwmech1]

Originally Posted by ScratchBuilt

Firstly, I can only echo everyone else's positive comments about this project - it's a real pleasure to follow. It seems that you're able to make fairly rapid progress despite minor distractions such as a full-time job, etc! How do you do it? You only sleep for two hours a night, perhaps?!

Following the previous post, BM1, I can only add a few comments from my own experience. Just how do you put a value on a project like this, even if only for insurance purposes? My 917-10 was somewhere over 1300 hours all-in: could you justify charging £ 20 or $ 20 an hour if someone wanted to buy it? Surely not, but it's a one-off piece of work, only to be repeated if I can face the prospect of spending another two years of my spare time doing it (and how can I do that when there's all those other projects lined up...?)

Personally, the cost of the raw materials is very small compared with what I've spent on books, magazines, etc, over the past seven or eight years that I've been doing these models. I guess if you're building from a box (at either end of the price-range!) it's slightly different in that you have an initial spend on the kit, plus whatever detail extras you add, plus however many hours it takes. If you can work on several at once, even better!

I've never approached my modelling thinking about the financial end value - the process itself is the interesting bit, researching and learning about the cars and the history, working out new ways of creating the shapes and structures. My day-job pays the bills (and I get to spend the day dealing with race-cars, too), the modelling is something I do for pleasure.

Sorry to have gone on a bit, but the subject of 'value' isn't something that I've seen mentioned too much (if at all) on any of the threads I've followed - apologies if I've said something I shouldn't.

Keep up the good work, BM1 - we need more 1/8 models!

ScratchBuilt

Scratchbuilt... First, thanks for the kind words. I pay close attention to your threads, as well. I have a genuine respect for your work, your approach and your techniques, not to mention your skills.

Secondly, I, like you, don't really think about what the end value may be... unless it is a commissioned job, which means you have to look at the end-value first and then make the model "fit" the budget, but that's not what we're talking about here. This is a labor of love... building things that have a personal interest to us and learning along the way, as you have said, is the joy of the build. Is it exciting to think about a particular project generating a huge level of excitment when it's finished? ...sure, but again, that's hardly the point.

I do sleep more than 2 hours a night, but I log about 20 hours a week, building, during the winter months. My wife has an internet business, my 1 year old goes to bed early and I am free to create for 5 out of 7 nights if I choose to. Once the weather warms up, though, my building time becomes more limited, both because my business gets busier and my outside time becomes more frequent. So I try to take advantage as much as possible during the colder months.

No apologies, mate... this is just good conversation amongst people who share the same love of building... just keep building 'em!!!

BM1

[bmwmech1]

Not to hijack my own thread, but I thought I would update everyone with what I've been up to... There is a group build starting on another site that I decided to join in as a diversion to keep me fresh and excited to continue work on the F40. Not that I'm not excited, but in the middle of a big project like this one, I need another smaller, less consuming project to give me a break every now and then. Anyone else out there have this dilemma? Or am I just alone in this ... Anyway, I had initially thought that I would do a nice build-up of Tamiya's venerable 1/12 Ferrari 641/2. I have some detail stuff for it and it is not a kit I've seen a WIP on in quite a while. But, then, as I was looking at all of the detailing a proper build would require, I changed my mind and decided to do an even more obscure, full detail build on Tamiya's 1/12 Renault RE 20. My reasoning is sound... older car, not as much electronic and sophisticated detailing, so it doesn't become too consuming and keep me from the F40. Pretty good logic, right? Anyway, I think Robrex started his 312T build by machining the wheels, and that was one mightily impressive build, so I though I'd start off the same way. Now they're not milled yet, but the fronts are pretty much complete save for some smoothing and polishing. The slugs are the rears, in their rough machined stage, and there is one rear that is finished, but was dimensionally off, so it's junk, but I included it in the photos to show the comparison to the kit part. Enough rambling and I'll post a proper WIP this week for the Renault...
The photos...








That's all for now and I promise I'll have some more updates on the F40 this week, too!!!

Thanks for watching

BM1

[Duncan1098]

I love your F40 build, have been following it, a real masterpiece. Good idea to have a break on an easier kit, don't get too distracted with the other kit!!!

[cinqster]

Wow...two build projects for the price of one!

Love the wheels. Really interested to see how you tackle the RE20 as I've been casting my eye over my kit recently too. I'm thinking that the major bugbear is the chassis rivets around the fuel tank - would look great if replaced with something more accurate (especially against the black CF texture).

[bmwmech1]

Originally Posted by cinqster

Wow...two build projects for the price of one!

Love the wheels. Really interested to see how you tackle the RE20 as I've been casting my eye over my kit recently too. I'm thinking that the major bugbear is the chassis rivets around the fuel tank - would look great if replaced with something more accurate (especially against the black CF texture).

Awww... you stole my thunder!!! I have a couple of bags of .5mm Scale Hardware rivets that are begging for a new home and what a better place than a C/F fuel cell/monocoque on a 80's era F1 car! Lots of nut, bolt and washer replacements as well. Keep your eyes peeled for a new dedicated WIP because this one should be an oldie-but-a-goodie.

BM1

[lupobianco]

Dear Friend, just today I saw your work and I have been registered at the forum because I too am trying to do something similar. Using as reference the back of the frame (in plastic) of the model I want to build it in brass. I tried the drawings of the chassis to get the most accurate, but I found a few things. Let me a question, where did you find drawings and measurements for a perfect job?
P.S. There are no words for the work they're doing. FANTASTICO
Luciano

[bmwmech1]

Hey everybody, sorry no posts, but as most have read, I got crunched a week ago and have not felt much like building. I am back in the workshop tonight, though, so I thought I'd post a few pics of my dead BMW. Although I feel fine now, the car is a total loss, so I have been scrambling to secure a replacement. Nothing yet, but my expectations are high. All of the photos are after I had pulled everything of value off of the car, like the wheels and tires and the sport springs, etc. I believe it is going to the salvage yard tomorrow, so I will say farewell ...





Even buckled the roof...


...and cracked the oil pan... the black trail of death...


Thankfully neither myself, nor the woman who turned left in front of me, was injured. Her 05 Ford Escape was also totaled. Great way to start the week...

BM1

[Duncan1098]

Sorry to see your car, at least you are ok, and the car is replacable, still a real pain.

[lupobianco]

I am glad to hear that fortunately the only damage to the vehicle.