(american Comparison) Zo6 Vs. Viper Vs. Cobra R

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by Radracer
[b]Just as I expected, excuses. Some people won't accept the truth. The truth is the Viper each and every model has been on top in terms of pure performance every year since it's inception.

The OLD GEN II will still blow away any corvette, including the 2003 z06. There are every conceivable documented tests and comparisons to prove this fact. As I said, there are road test results that show lap times for each model and the GTS beats the z06 in every lap.

Only down the 1/4 mile, on a roacourse it's up to the driver, period, end of discussion thanks for playing.

FACT not FICTION

TRUTH not LIES

HONESTY not PROPAGANDA

what the fuck are you smoking?

Ok, so we're finally making some progress here. Now some are finally admitting the truth that the viper is the best performance vehicle made in the great USA.

uh, no, the LSx is a MUCH better engine, the Corvettes aerodynamic drag make the vipers .4x look like a school bus, the chassis stiffness on both is very close and if I remember correctly,t he corvette has more luggage room and STILL manages to be lighter. The vette is the best performance car in the country SOLELY because of its price, beyond that the fact that it's chassis is basically superior (sorry but a modified truck chassis while doable does not a better car make) and it's engine has as much streetable potential. It can do everything the viper does for less money, and more then the viper does for the same money, thats why it's better.

[Radracer]

Thanks! but, don't thank me, thank the viper engineers.

One thing I forgot to mention about reliability and "hopping" up your stang or vette to beat a viper.

You can do that and risk losing your motor. Or you can buy a viper and always be at least one or two steps ahead of the rest (mod vs mod) and still know your engine is making far less hp than it's capable of (this translates to increased reliability and descreased wear and tear).

As an example, look at Nascar. Those engines are 346cubic engines. To produce 700-750 horsepower they need to compete in a winston cup race, they have to spend between $50,000 and $100,000 EACH race on EACH engine just to get that much horsepower. How long does this engine last? MAYBE one race! Many of these engines blow up during a race and won't even make it a complete race. Even if the engine does survive, it is rebuilt the following week. This is a prime example of the greatest benefit the viper has over the stang and the vette. Cubic inches and 10 cylinders. Each cylinder is subjeted to less stress as an equivalent hp v8. This again, means more reliability. Of course, all this extra metal means more weight and more money to produce. This in turn means a higher pricetag for the consumer. This by no means is why it costs $30k more, just one of many reasons. The lightweight hand made body panels, to the aluminum suspension components to the forged internal components rather than the cast components that vettes and stangs have are more of the reasons for the increased cost not to mention a very small production number. Each internal engine component is designed to withstand enormous hp without having to be replaced for serious mods. You cannot say that about a vette or a stang. There are vipers now in the 1000 hp with stock bottom ends and even up to 1200 hp with worked motors.

Now, if a NASCAR team spends as much money as they need and buys the best possible components for their engines and they still only produce 700-750 hp and they won't even last one race sometimes, what do you think you are doing when you mod your small block v8 to try and match a vipers stock 500 hp or modded 1000 hp motor?

Now can you understand that there really IS no comparison between these vehicles?

Vettes and stang owners should be happy being in 2nd and 3rd place behind such a fine automobile. They should also be happy knowing they too have a great vehicle for such a relatively inexpensive pricetag.

[stangvette1]

Since when did the 2003 cobra cost $45000? It would not not cost much money to make a Z06 or a cobra faster than a viper. The viper has a V10. Big Deal. It gets TERRIBLE gas mileage. The V8 is all-american. The viper is the only american sports car that uses a V10. It's really sad that the viper isn't pumping more than 500 hp from 8.3L. My word, the cobra produces 400 from a supercharged 4.6L. The viper is NOT the best car in america. If money is not a problem, go buy a saleen S7 or a FORD GT. They will both kick the crap out of the viper. And as I said before, just wait until 2006 when the cobra and Z06 are both easily beating the viper and making the viper look like a HUGE rip-off!

[Radracer]

"The vette is the best performance car in the country SOLELY because of its price, beyond that the fact that it's chassis is basically superior (sorry but a modified truck chassis while doable does not a better car make) "

" It can do everything the viper does for less money, and more then the viper does for the same money, thats why it's better."


SEE HERE! EVERYBODY READ THIS GUYS POST.

This is the kind of utter NONSENSE that permiates the internet. He clearly did not read my posts or anyone with knowledge or ownership of both vehicles.

So, in this guys world, the only qualities to the best performing vehicle is price. "SOLELY cause of price" was his quote.

I'm just glad you don't design vehicles.

He still lives in the dark ages where he thinks the viper is made from a truck chassis. This alone shows his mental capacity and knowledge of the subject. The viper's frame (chassis) was designed for the viper and only for the viper and shares no parts with any truck. LOL! That's like me saying the firebird shares the same engine block as the Chevy vega. Only problem is if I said that, then you would see all kinds of posts like that and people believing it all over the world. Come on people, if we're going to have a discussion let's stick to FACTS.

"It can do everything a viper does and more"

Please explain that to us. Please back up these words. This is what I'm talking about. This would be considered "propaganda". Saying statements that you want to be true, doesn't make them true!

I already posted results of a professional driver who is a known and respected corvette fanatic who thoroughly tested both vehicles and in EVERY test the viper came out ahead!

How does your brain translate that to the vette doing everything the viper does and more?

Please respond and help us understand your reasoning here.

Thank you


As for your post, Stang, why will it take the other manufactures 3 more years to EQUAL what the Viper can do now?

And in 3 more years, the viper will have advanced too silly. You think the viper engineers are going to sit on their laurels and wait around for others to catch up? They haven't yet so I wouldn't expect them to in the future either.

Again, the vette and stang were behind in hp and performance in 92 when the viper was released. They were behind in 96 when the gen 2 GTS was released. They are behind now against the Gen 3 SRT and they will most likely stay behind in 2006.

I don't know what will happen. All I know is the past 8 years and what is currently available.

I for one hopes the Ford GT40 is a great success. I love that car and hope it performs and handles better than the viper. I hope to purchase one in the future as well. That's the only car on the market (or will be on the market) I would consider selling my viper for. The other cars that are available are mass produced and not all that impressive to me.

Again I ask you, have you owned a viper or a vette?

How then can you compare them adequately. You won't even believe all the comparison tests, how can I expect you to believe me or any other documented facts.

Were you guys on the OJ jury by chance?

[Radracer]

I'm sorry, you are correct.

Cobras run between $35-42K

[stangvette1]

My point is that the viper is and will never be god of the automotive world. The viper is running high 11s to low 12s. The Z06 and cobra both run low to mid 12s. The viper is about 3-5 tenths faster than the Z06 and the cobra. That isn't that much. You still get the awesome jolt of acceleration in the Z06 and the cobra.They are all three awesome cars. The viper is currently prevailing in performance, but it is also prevailing in the area of price. Most people can't afford a viper or even a Z06. Dodge needs to lower their price tag on their viper. It really is a rip-off! I don't just think that the viper is a rip-off. Lambos, ferraris, and porsches are all HUGE rips!!! They all make the viper look like the best deal on the planet, but when the viper is compared to the cobra and the Z06 ( its american competitors) it also looks like a rip-off! As I said before the viper is currently prevailing in performance, but who knows what the future holds. The cobra and Z06 are catching up the Viper pretty fast now.

[Neutrino]

by the same reasoning ferraris, ruf porche and a bunch of other cars are a rip off........

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by Radracer
Thanks! but, don't thank me, thank the viper engineers.

One thing I forgot to mention about reliability and "hopping" up your stang or vette to beat a viper.

You can do that and risk losing your motor. Or you can buy a viper and always be at least one or two steps ahead of the rest (mod vs mod) and still know your engine is making far less hp than it's capable of (this translates to increased reliability and descreased wear and tear).

As an example, look at Nascar. Those engines are 346cubic engines. To produce 700-750 horsepower they need to compete in a winston cup race, they have to spend between $50,000 and $100,000 EACH race on EACH engine just to get that much horsepower. How long does this engine last? MAYBE one race! Many of these engines blow up during a race and won't even make it a complete race. Even if the engine does survive, it is rebuilt the following week. This is a prime example of the greatest benefit the viper has over the stang and the vette. Cubic inches and 10 cylinders. Each cylinder is subjeted to less stress as an equivalent hp v8. This again, means more reliability. Of course, all this extra metal means more weight and more money to produce. This in turn means a higher pricetag for the consumer. This by no means is why it costs $30k more, just one of many reasons. The lightweight hand made body panels, to the aluminum suspension components to the forged internal components rather than the cast components that vettes and stangs have are more of the reasons for the increased cost not to mention a very small production number. Each internal engine component is designed to withstand enormous hp without having to be replaced for serious mods. You cannot say that about a vette or a stang. There are vipers now in the 1000 hp with stock bottom ends and even up to 1200 hp with worked motors.

Now, if a NASCAR team spends as much money as they need and buys the best possible components for their engines and they still only produce 700-750 hp and they won't even last one race sometimes, what do you think you are doing when you mod your small block v8 to try and match a vipers stock 500 hp or modded 1000 hp motor?

Now can you understand that there really IS no comparison between these vehicles?

Vettes and stang owners should be happy being in 2nd and 3rd place behind such a fine automobile. They should also be happy knowing they too have a great vehicle for such a relatively inexpensive pricetag.

you're comparing a race engine that is designed from the start to be rebuilt after every race, the rings are very low tension, low friction which requires them to be replaced due to high wear,, the same goes for the bearings, they're designed to be as small and hav the least amount of friction possible. You're also talking about motors very limited by class rules, you've obviously never heard of restrictor plates and mandated exhaust sizes, had they been allowed to bulild it with only fuel as the limitation on power they would be making much more power.

They also run solely NA, this isn't the case with street vehicles. Yes having less pressure per cylinder causes less wear and tear, fine, when we're both making 1000 HP I'll give you the nod in terms of your motor lasting a few thousand miles longer. You're very confused, there are 49 state legal 1000+ motors with WARRANTIES for thousands of miles running around, there are others without warranties making as much power that last plenty long as well. As for stock internals, I'd have to see this to believe it, because I've never seen a single one that claimed that, let alone actually did it. Besides that, 30K buys alot of engine mods. You seem to think that everyone who builds a 700+ HP smallblock reuilds it every 500 miles, there are plenty with more miles on it then stock motors could handle making a ton of power, you need to experience things a bit before you make assumptions based on NASCAR.

Please explain that to us. Please back up these words. This is what I'm talking about. This would be considered "propaganda". Saying statements that you want to be true, doesn't make them true!

it's already been backed up in the past, the viper is the car that is playing catchup here, the vette has proven itself for 50 years now, the current vette has made as much power in the aftermarket, been as reliable and costs less then the viper. Besides that, it's obvious which one the people prefer, who's sold 20 to 30K er year every year since 97 and whos sold under 10? The vettes aftermarket is bigger, the car can perform just as well if desired so and it costs less, thats why it's a better car.

Ferraris and all the other exotics are a ripoff, neutrino, it has nothing to do with the viper it'self, I'd say the same thing had this discussion been about them.

[Polygon]

FYRHWK1, Radracer posted the FACTS. I don't even see how you can argue with him. The Viper outperforms the Z06 in every test, just get over it.

[FYRHWK1]

Originally posted by Polygon
FYRHWK1, Radracer posted the FACTS. I don't even see how you can argue with him. The Viper outperforms the Z06 in every test, just get over it.

he posted his VERSION of the facts, he used NASCAR engines to compare with street driven cars and basically claimed that any 700+ HP smallblock will need to be rebuilt regularly when just thoguh personal experience they don't. Yes the viper is faster in the 1/4 mile and yes it now brakes better, you don't see me EVER saying opposite. My argument is him claiming it's the best sportscar, it SHOULD be faster - it costs more. For the price, it's not worth it, which is why it's not the #1 sportscar from america, maybe stock, but the corvette has always been made to be modified just like mostly any performance car from GM, or even Ford. Stock perofmrance isn't the only thing being brought into this, and the vette has proven it'self the leader when it comes to this price level ever since 97.

[1996Z28SS]

jump in with my .02 cents.

IMHO the viper is the best american sportscar. Yes I know it costs more, but you also have a viper. I know you should not buy a car to be noticed, but when I see a corvette drive by, its cool. But I have never came home from work to my gf saying she saw a corvette. But yesterday she did say she was next to a viper.

The viper has the best performance. And also the most head turning abilities. Maybe the high price makes so there are less of them on the road, but that also makes them more special when you come across one.

[Radracer]

I think firehawk is confusing the terms here.

I'm stating that the Viper is (without any question) the Best performing vehicle that America makes. He's saying the vette is the best american sports car.

That's fine, if you need to have caveats in your statements thats fine. (Vette is the best american sports car because it has more heritage, or because I like it more, or because it's cheaper or because I know how to mod it, or because I just FEEL like it is).

Let's not confuse what you want and what reality is though. I can see how you can say that the Vette is americas best sports car. It's kind of like saying that the Dallas Cowboys are "Americas Team". Are they though?

My statement is a factual statement. The viper is the HIGHEST PERFORMING sports car that america offers.

I don't understand why $ has to enter into that equation. Performance is performance .
You clearly don't have the mental capacity to understand the simple point I was trying to make with NASCAR and highly tuning a smaller engine in comparison to a higher displacement engine.

All things considered, a larger displacement engine (of the same basic technology) will last longer and stress less than a comparable hp engine of less displacement. AND, every mod you do on a vette, I can do on a viper and be that much more ahead of you. Step for step, mod for mod, the Viper is ahead. Plain and simple.

There is no version of facts. Facts are facts. I won't make up test results, race results or any other FACT. Remember, I diligently researched for a long time and I have been around a LONG time and used to be part owner of a NASCAR race car and crew chief. If the z06 were a better performing car, I would have bought one instead of a viper. We viper owners have stepped up to the viper for performance reasons, not just because it looks so much better than a vette.

[Polygon]

Originally posted by FYRHWK1


he posted his VERSION of the facts, he used NASCAR engines to compare with street driven cars and basically claimed that any 700+ HP smallblock will need to be rebuilt regularly when just thoguh personal experience they don't. Yes the viper is faster in the 1/4 mile and yes it now brakes better, you don't see me EVER saying opposite. My argument is him claiming it's the best sportscar, it SHOULD be faster - it costs more. For the price, it's not worth it, which is why it's not the #1 sportscar from america, maybe stock, but the corvette has always been made to be modified just like mostly any performance car from GM, or even Ford. Stock perofmrance isn't the only thing being brought into this, and the vette has proven it'self the leader when it comes to this price level ever since 97.

This debate is NOT about modded cars. Nothing annoys me more than the modded car vs. stock car debate. Stock for stock the Viper beats the Vette in every test. Radracer posted those facts one page back. As for the price debate. Sure the Corvette is less money, but you get what you pay for. Speed isn't all you get with the Viper for more money.

I agree with every post that Radracer had made.

[FYRHWK1]

allright, want to go stock? then you're still incorrect, the saleen S7, Mosler MT900 and Callaway (forget the model) all outperform the Viper, and since you obviously don't care about price, these are all valid cars. If you want to call it americas sportscar, stock alone does not matter, mod for mod the vette can keep up witha viper nicely, and money is ALWAYS a factor.

I'm curious ot see how you'll try and prove that the cars mentioned aren't viable for the title

[Radracer]

Those cars aren't considered production vehicles and are a conglomerate of many manufacturers components to make a car. You will find ford, chevy, dodge and custom parts in those cars to assemble it to a drivable vehicle.


Another uninformed analogy. I suggest learning a little more about automobile history, technology and manufacturing before being so bold (and silly) with your arguments. How old are you may I ask?