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Old 03-06-2010, 05:05 PM   #1
me262
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'86 Sammy brake problem

With engine off, press brake pedel once...it goes to the floor...press twice. it goes down 1/2 way....press it again...it's in full normal braking position. Hold it there, it doesn't leak. Let off for 2 seconds, press pedel...it goes to the floor.

I bled brakes, inspected for leakage, bought and installed a master cyl. had same problem. Installed new vacum lines from booster to manifold...no difference. Took master cyl back and exchanged and installed new one. No change. Don't know how it could be, but only thing left is changing the booster. i'm not sure this is problem...whadaya think?
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:41 AM   #2
denisond3
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Re: '86 Sammy brake problem

I dont have a Samurai (tho would like to get one) so Im guessing. First;

Does the pedal work normally with the engine running, or will it also go to the floor the first time. If so, what about the 2nd and 3rd times? There is supposed to be residual vacuum in the booster after you shut the engine off. If so, you usually get to operate the pedal once or twice with the residual vacuum helping inside the booster. After that is used, its just your foot pressure that the hydrualic fluid sees.

With many new master cylinders it is necessary to do what is called 'bench bleeding'. This means clamping the m.c. in a vise, and connecting tubes from the outlet ports, leading back into the reservoir - and working the piston in/out many times. ... Until there are no more bubbles showing up in the tubes (which normally are of clear vinyl.

Did the car just start doing this one day, when you hadnt done any work on the brake system? I am assuming your Suzuki has discs on the front, and drums on the rear. In cold weather, old disc brake seals can leak and let air into the bore. When you step the brake pedal the first time you compress the air - and letting the brake up and re-pressing the pedal will compress it to where you feel 'feedback' from the pedal. I have had to rebuild the calipers on my older cars with front discs due to this happening. If you bled the front brakes, it would be back to normal - until the next spell of really cold weather.

If the rear wheel brakes have self-adjusters (as they must), then the self-adjusters will eventually stiffen or rust -- and not compensate for wear on the brakes shoes. This would have the effect of seeming like the brake pedal had to move closer to the floor - little by little.

You might have a very slow leak from a brake line. I had to replace the brake lines on my 92 Escort - due to a leak so small and slow that I never saw it dripping, nor a spot on the ground. But we had to keep adding fluid to the master cylinder. The bad spot on the brake line was up beside the fuel tank, and was only visible when I had the car backed onto ramps, and could slide under - and look straight up.

When brake boosters fail, they usually loose their helpfullness, i.e. it takes more brake pedal pressure for the same amount of deceleration. This can happen over a period of weeks - or if the bladder inside rips open, it can happen from one second to the next.
I have opened up several brake boosters (from cars about 20+ years old), and each time the muck and slime I find inside makes me wonder how they could possibly still work.


Being in the market for a small Suzuki Samurai, Tracker, or even a Swift, I am looking at the problems the owners bring to this forum.
Good Luck....
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