Manual transmission on Metro - can it be adjusted?.

[zuzul]

I recently got a used Geo Metro and I have found
that there are times, especially when it is cold,
that it physically prevents me from shifting from
first gear into second.

If I push down on the clutch and force it, the
gears will clash and grind for a short period of
time as if I were not pressing down on the clutch
completely or at all when shifting. This is whenever
I push down on the clutch all the way to the
floor. This also happens somewhat from second
to third, however it generally does not happen
when going to fourth or fifth.

If I wait a little while when shifting, it will sometimes
go into third from second, but it almost never
allows me to go into second from first.

I have tried 'double clutching' some and it
seems to somewhat work. If I push down
on the clutch and then shift from first
to second, then when prevented from
moving into second, I let up on the clutch
and push down again, sometimes it will
allow me to move the shift arm into second
gear. Sometimes shifting between the
two gears, pushing down on the
accelerator for a short while, and then
letting the engine decelerate quickly
again will make it allow me to move
the arm into second. Often it will
not. Sometimes it seems easier to
clash the gears to make it shift.

Repetitively clashing the gears seems
like it would be hard on the transmission.

About a week ago I adjusted a screw
that connects the clutch pedal to
the transmission. The screw would
seat in place differently every 180
degree turn, which seemed like it
was based upon the design of the
screw.

When I found that I adjusted the
cable too far in, it seemed like it
shifted slightly better, but it also
seemed like it was doing the
equivalent of 'riding the clutch'
and perpetually driving as if
the clutch was partially engaged.
If I adjusted too far the other
way, it was generally worse.

The basic question is this:

The Chilton's and Haynes manuals
both say nothing about it, however
there are also 3 other screws on
the surface of the manual
transmission. Are these screws
there to adjust the synchros or
adjust some other settings internal
to the transmission? If so, what
does each one set, and how can
they be adjusted?

Or is it not possible to adjust the
synchros or any other settings on
the transmission without taking
it off and or rebuilding it?

Is it something that might
clear up if the oil were
changed on it only, without
going through a complete
rebuild to fix it or an
adjustment?

Will the transmission require a
rebuild soon, or can it be
adjusted so that it will shift
properly without rebuilding it?

Do the three screws mean
anything? Do they adjust
something internally?

Thank you,

-

[DOCTORBILL]

Please click on this link first....

New Posters - Please Read Before Asking a Question!

What year Metro, Engine size, How many miles on the Odometer ?
Have you checked the Oil level in the transmission ? Does it have any ?
Is there any metal in the bottom of the transmission ?
This requires an oil change procedure to find out.

Maybe read this thread - lot of comments on the manual transmission.

What are ALL the symptoms of a worn out Manual Transmission ?

"...when it is cold,..."
The oil in the Transmission is probably 80W-90, which is like Molasses when cold.
Hardly lubricating...

"Repetitively clashing the gears seems like it would be hard on the transmission.

Yes....you might be safe in saying that....

"If I push down on the clutch and force it... - I wouldn't do that anymore....

Sounds like worn out clutch or way the Hell out of adjustment - worn out transmission ?

IF you stop with it in gear (can you !?), how far off the floor does the clutch start
engaging?

Chilton - page 7 - 9 "Release Arm Play" - follow directions....

If adjusted wrong, the Throw Out Bearing is always engaged and will wear out.

Chilton - page 7 - 9 "Pedal Height" - follow directions....

Other than that, there are no adjustments on the transmission.

Do not mess with the three Phillips Head Screws on the top of the Transmission !

These screws merely hold in three ball bearings that make the Gear Shifter Rods
stay where they are supposed to stay. Not Adjustable.

"Or is it not possible to adjust the synchros or any other settings on the transmission
without taking it off and or rebuilding it?

Exactly right - the synchros have no adjustment possible - not any.

I just rebuilt a '94 5 speed. See my two threads and you can observe the entire
"innards" of these manual transmissions. Lots of photos.

94 Metro 5 Speed Manual Transmission Rebuild

94 Metro 5 Speed Manual Transmission Rebuild - PART 2 - Assembly

By the way...if you do pull the transmission out to rebuild it, you will want to also replace
the Clutch at the same time...

Might as well kill two birds with one stone (hackneyed expression !).

I would hope this helps you.

See the Index - Indexus Metrogloditus - at the top of the Forum.

DoctorBill over the Hill
.
.

[c140flyer]

Doctorbill is right on in asking those questions. I personally think that you might have a sychro problem and trying to repair the problem by adjusting your clutch.
Adjust the clutch according to the book. Then drain your fluid and check for metal as Doctorbill suggests.Then if no metal is found, you might try refilling the transaxle with GM or Pennzoil Sychromesh fluid. If that doesn't help, you are probably looking at replacing the sychros which will require splitting open the transaxle.
My two cents...
Larry

[c140flyer]

Sorry,
I meant to say "synchros" and "Synchromesh".
Larry

[brivers]

I'm going to take a guess and say that when the engine is off you can shift right through the gears. Since you have adjusted the clutch to the point that the throwout bearing is riding on the pressure plate I would say that you have a broken or bent finger on your pressure plate. Although you're pushing in the clutch not all of the pressure plate is releasing. One way or another you need to stop driving it before you ruin the tranny. Drop the tranny and fix it now. Chances are good its the pressure plate. Hope this helps. Good luck.

[zuzul]

> What year Metro, Engine size, How many miles on the Odometer ?
>

The Metro in question is a 1991. I got it recently
and it had 70,000 miles on the odometer
(100,000 maximum on dial). A carfax report
showed that it might have had near to that reading
or below for several years earlier.

I also have a 1994 Metro with a manual transmission.

The 1991 is in better shape than the 1994, but I
am sceptical that a vehicle can have that mileage
after 18 years. It might have been garaged and
maintained well in its early years and have 170,000.
There are also a lot of cat hairs or maybe the
hairs of some other animal in it, so it also seems
feasible that it may not have been driven for a
number of years half a decade ago or earlier.

> Have you checked the Oil level in the
> transmission ? Does it have any ?

The specific manual transmission on my 1994
does not have a drain plug where the
Chilton's and Haynes manuals say that it
should have one.

The recently gotten 1991 seems like it
might be closer to what is in the manual.
That seems like a good next step.

>>"...when it is cold,..."
> The oil in the Transmission is probably 80W-90,
> which is like Molasses when cold.
> Hardly lubricating...

> Do not mess with the three Phillips Head Screws on the top of the >Transmission !
>
> These screws merely hold in three ball bearings that make the
> Gear Shifter Rods stay where they are supposed to
> stay. Not Adjustable.

I've looked at the rebuild. It seems to me
that it is reasonably easy to shift once
the synchros for second gear have
actually engaged. Probably the
spring that holds the bearing in
place for the low speed shaft is
therefore good.

>> "Or is it not possible to adjust the synchros or any other settings
>> on the transmission without taking it off and or rebuilding it?
>
> Exactly right - the synchros have no adjustment possible - not any.

It is probably either an unlubricated 2nd
synchro or a bad 2nd synchro. I will
try the easier task first. Hopefully
it is not the latter.

In theory it might be something involving
the pressure plate on the clutch. Overall,
I don't seem to have any problems shifting
into 1st, 4th, 5th, or reverse, and almost
never have problems going into 3rd.

Thank you.