honda swap into a porsche 914

[rtalens]

Hey guys,

I've got two Porsche 914's, one is stock and runs okay. The other is pretty much gutted( pretty much frame and suspension/wheels). I would like to put a new engine and tranny into the gutted one. would like to put a honda engine in it. I've tried to post this same question at a 914 site but got condescending responses. What do you guys think? What obstacles will I need to overcome?

My plan is to get a donor car, a civic or a del sol front clip. Use the subframe and slide it into the rear of the 914. If you're not familiar with the 914, it's a midengine car. My immediate concerns are engine mounts and axle/cv connetions to the original wheels/hubs. Well, that's a tid bit of info for you guys to chomp on. Any concstructive criticism is welcome.

rt.

[BLU CIVIC]

INTRESTING PROJECT...SORRY I CAN'T HELP BUT I'M SURE YOU DREW A LOT OF CRITIZM (CAN'T SPL) FROM THE PORSCHE FORUM

[BLU CIVIC]

BTW....WHY A HONDA ENGINE

[rtalens]

Well,

I asked myself what do I know that is reliable and has a great aftermarket following? With all the Honda tuners out there I figured Honda. And since I drive a civic right now, why not try a civic or del sol swap. I'm also considering an MR2 swap since it is already setup for midengine drive. But I thought I would have more support with a Honda swap.

[rtalens]

BTW,

I'm not fond of the original air-cooled/tranny setup that the 914 originally had. I don't care to ever go back to the original VW engine, and Porsche 901 transmission.

rt.

[dirk-diggler]

Dat is an in an out job, if ya git my drift! Awesome plan dude!:frog:

[cpacheco]

Damn thats dumb. sorry bro but your gonna Filth up the name of Porsche by sticking a damn Honda engine it of all things? Why? Porsche enthusiast everywhere are pointing there fingers and laughing at you. Gee let me make you fell better by getting a Big Body Benz and swapping a Neon mootor in it. Then I could be as cool as you.

[Moppie]

Why not a Honda engine?
Very reliable, light weight, with a great flat torque curve and very high specific output.
Clearly a B18c and g/box is the best option.

But I doubt it would fit.
All the Honda engines are quite tall, and when conected to the g/box quite wide.
The 914 uses an inline flat 4? engine, that is well low and in line with the g/box making it narrow.

I think you'll find that the Honda engine simply wont fit in the space provided with out some serious modiifcation to the body and or chassis.

A nice idea, but I think that the orginal Porsche engine would be the best choice, or if you want something Japanese and very powerful then a Subaru WRX engine would be an easier fit, as its the same lay out as the Porsche.



Got any pics of the 914?

[cpacheco]

Fug it you should waste maddddd $$$$$$$$ and time and go ahead and do it . That way every single stock Porsche would be messing with you and handing your ass to you for all the time you invested. Make sure to show them the engine so they can have a nice laugh and something to post about it the Porsche forums.

[AcridSaint]

cpacheco care to elaborate on this? How is it that a *stock* honda civic engine producing 160BHP is going to be outperformed by an old porsche 914 motor? The HIGHEST output of 914 was a 2.0, in 73-74 (I believe) they produced 95BHP stock, most other 2.0 914's only produced 90BHP, if memory serves. If he went with a 2.2L h22a out of a prelude, he'd have 190BHP USDM or 200BHP JDM, stock. An r type integra engine will also produce that sort of horsepower with slightly lower weight. There is much more aftermarket support for these motors as well, parts are cheaper than porsche or vw parts, and there is more supoprt for power upgrades. Putting turbo on a civic motor is cheaper and more reliable than the porsche motor, and it will have much more power. The only porches out there that are going to hand him is a$$ are porsches that would hand it to the 914 anyhow.

Now on to the rest of the post:

I've also been looking into a swap like this, and I think that it could work, and work well. There are serveral guys out there putting V6's and V8's in these things, and I *think* that they are about the same height if not slightly higher than the honda engines. Note I said think.

The question for me has been weight, yes I know that the honda motors are light, but how light. I can't find any specs on motor weight for the hondas, though I've only been looking for a couple days. The 2.0 porsche motor is somewhere around 321 lbs, now is the honda lighter or heavier than that? I figure if it's heavier then it shouldn't be any more than 30% heavier if you want to notice a significant power increase. I'd like to hear more about this, if anyone has done a similar swap, etc. I read recently about a 2.5L swap in a 914, jumping it up to about 170hp or some such, but there weren't a lot of specs, my guess is that it was a GM motor.

[IMxWHITE]

I know this thread is somewhat old but in case anyone else is going to attempt this, DO IT! Everyone Ive dealt with so far has been very supportive. Who cares what the rich old white men who own Porsches and never drive them think about what engine you put in YOUR car?

The B16A engine from honda, (found in japanese 88+ CIVIC/CRX(160bhp), 92+ CIVIC/CRX2(170bhp), 88+ Integra SiRG(160bhp) and US version B16A2,4 etc found in 95+ Del Sol DOHC VTEC(160bhp), 99+ Civic Si(160bhp)) will mate to the stock Porsche 901 tranny with a kit, flywheel, clutch, etc. from Kennedy Engineered products (www.KennedyEng.com) and must use a reverse direction starter (which Kennedy also sells). The stock Porsche 901 trans was assembled backwards by Porsche to allow mid-engine configuration. You need to 'flip the diff' because the Honda engine rotates the 'wrong' way. Its easy, and rotates fine either direction so produces no extra wear on the tranny. (Im not sure on engine weights, but the Hondas are made entirely from aluminum and 'felt' lighter than the stock 2.0)

As for clearance problems, the B16A is JUST short enough to fit inside the length of the engine bay, but tall enough that you must cut a rectangle in some of the trunk and bay cover. You must route cooling lines and mount a radiator (mines in the trunk with louvers).

The stock exhaust manifold will fit, from where you can route the exhaust to the drivers side of the car, or make a header yourself and run exhaust out the passengers side. Intake manifold may be retained, as the throttle body will face the back of the car and not be stuffed up against the firewall, or you can order individual throttle body or carburator setups. My dual sidedraft Webers were purchased from Pierce Manifolds near San Jose, CA (and talk about customer service, great attitude and very helpfull). Retaining the stock intake manifold requires either a knowledge of the Honda wiring (which is easily found and not too difficult to figure out) and the cheapest route as B16A ecm's go for around $300, or an aftermarket stand alone unit. Individual Throttle bodies would be great for someone with lots of cash as just the setup alone runs around $2500, not including the stand alone engine control unit you would need to purchase ($600 - $4000) and tuning (usually $70+/hour dyno time). Carburators are in-between, and make the whole application easier, although costing more than a stock setup (between $600 and $1200), they give the user the option to tune the car to its potential. (At first we were going to make a one-off intake manifold and put a holley 4 barrel on it to really screw with people, but I just wanted to get the car moving and didnt really care about being different after already being different)

All in all, it makes for a nice setup stock, but if you feel like going crazy and porting, stroking, turbocharging, etc. go ahead. The B16's are VERY reliable and VERY cheap if you break one (depending on the year, $650 - $1300 motor-tranny-sometimes ecu). They also have a HUGE following in the U.S. and the aftermarket parts (especially the japanese aftermarket) go on and on. Although the engines have 10.1:1 compression, they are reliable turbocharged or supercharged with even minor modifications to the stock fuel system and no changes to the stock computer. I have a turbocharged 1990 Honda Civic with a B16A that runs 10.4:1 compression with 7psi boost and make roughly 230 whp. The car has been running flawlessly for 6 years (3 turbocharged) and the ONLY modification to the fuel system is a boost dependent fuel pressure regulator. Common sense is all you need to keep from blowing holes in your cylinders.

Thanks, hope this helps.

Note: its much easier to fit the Impreza EJ25 or EJ20T engine (Kennedy makes kits for those too, or pretty much any engine really) but the wiring is always known to be a bitch with Subarus, and the engines are a little more difficult to find and are usually more expensive because off-road people use them in buggies often.

[leolo007]

I say WRX engine, these are very common swaps, I am putting one on my 86 vanagon. jdm come with 240hp, you can get them from nippon-motors.com, thats where I got mine for $650 (complete swap minus tranny) plus $300 for ecu. Havent recieved it yet since I ordered a few days ago. But if you want write me and I'll tell you the condition it came in. I also got the kit from kennedy engineering to make the engine fit, they're really nice on the phone and help you out from personal experiences they've had. Plus you keep the bad ass flat 4 engine. I could have gone with an easier swap, a VW 2.0L SOHC that comes on the jetta and golf, but 115hp... 240 sounds better. IF I were you I would go with the twin turbo WRX engine (ej20tt, about $1200) (nly in japanese WRX before anyone starts talking shit) it came with 280hp, and that would really make your porsche perform like a porsche, plus its only a 2.0L engine, so you keep it reasonably light in the rear. Good luck, and happy swapping!!

engine prices on nippon-motors dont include tranny, but the Kennedy Engineering pachage comes with kit to use the stock tranny, at least for my application, I dont know for yours.

[LinearPerformance]

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