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Old 09-27-2004, 04:49 PM   #46
Hodo
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If I remember my schooling right, the performance gains from a turbo are far greater than the gains from the supercharger.

But there are different superchargers.
Screw-35/60% efficiant
Roots-30/40% efficiant
Centrifigual- 60/70% efficiant.

The typical turbo is around 85% efficiant.

This one of the HUGE reasons why many engines are turboed. That and they are easier to install and maintain. The price though is about the same for any of them. But the options available and the lack of the parasitic draw of the supercharger you can gain higher HP ratings at peak. But a Supercharger gives you ON DEMAND power as soon as you want it. Unlike some of the larger turbos which have some pretty nasty lag time.

Its a give and take world with boost.
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Old 09-27-2004, 07:35 PM   #47
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Re: Re: Can't win em all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMan
LLTZ:
Is it just me, or does that look like a supercharger sticking out the hood of that z31?
Ha...sorry, but no...that's the inlet for the turbo's compressor housing sticking out of the hood.

I don't feel like reading anything else right now...I'm tired and have to do homework. I'll reply to the rest of that later.
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Old 09-27-2004, 08:42 PM   #48
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Here we go again. Mr. Hodo, would you be as so kind as to tell all of us what school you attended? I went to the school of FACTS.
Fact Turbocharger's have 70-75% VE but if properly set up, meaning ideal exhaust can go as high as 80% VE

Centrifugal belt driven superchargers have 70-73% VE

Old style Roots superchargers 50-60% VE

Screwtype superchargers 90-99% VE

The proof is in the following:

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1204
http://magnusonproducts.com/images/mp112g1.jpg

Now about compression vs. supercharging: I keep hearing that a TT can make more power than a than a NA. I hate to keep popping bubbles but read the following:

http://www.motorsportsdigest.com/forced2.htm

So please Mr. Hodo please back up your claims, so we all may learn from your school.

A wise man changes his mind, a fool never.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:13 PM   #49
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Re: Can't win em all.

that's all mustang stuff, i don't really see how much relevance that has to the Z... the 300zx was made to be turbocharged.. it will always be a better car turbocharged... so why do we keep argueing???
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Old 09-27-2004, 11:33 PM   #50
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Travis, appearently you didn't read all the web's I posted. 13 years ago when the Z32 was designed, to keep with clean body lines the engineers chose to use 2 turbo's. Does that make them better? NO . Then is the screwtype supercharger better? NO. What is the problem some are having understanding FACTS. So which one is best? READ MY LIPS, THEY BOTH HAVE GOOD AND BAD POINTS. Is one better than the other, depends on how you apply it. Your statment is like saying, don't use a underdrive pulley, it wasn't designed for it. Or don't upgrade your ECU, it wasn't designed for it.
Enough has been said about superchargers and turbochargers. Those that read and understand have learned, and those that didn't, never will.
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Old 09-27-2004, 11:54 PM   #51
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Re: Can't win em all.

maybe i didn't explain myself correctly... it's not that i've got anything against superchargers... i just like turbo's better.... also, name me one stock car from nissan that came with a supercharger (i haven't looked into it but from my current knowledge, there aren't any) so i guess that puts me and the developers at nissan (8-23 years ago) on the same page... superchargers are better for some cars, tc's are better for others, it's all personal preference(sp?) and developer preference...
and i'm not saying don't upgrade minor things on your car, i'm saying don't do a total overhaul of your car and put in something completely different than what it was designed for... however.. you could ask then what do i think of the single turbo vert that's pushing 620rwhp or some crazy number like that.. that's not exactly using 'as it was designed' technology, but it still operates on the same components as the original developers had planned.... all i'm saying is leave it the way they intended it, it's better that way... i'm just trying to keep the vision of the designer of the Z alive
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:00 AM   #52
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thats what i think derlerious. i will take a TC on my z over supercharger any day but if i lose my brain and go buy a mustang im for damn sure gonna put a supercharger on it. by the way nissan put a supercharger on there new frontier i think it is?

BTW: whats up with this??? http://www.nissan.com/
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:14 AM   #53
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Re: Can't win em all.

Nissan even has a engine code designated for superchargers: R
If I worked at nissan and I had completed my project z31, my car would have a VG30DER in it.
Granted it doesn't sound as good as VG30DETT

-Mike
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Old 09-28-2004, 04:59 AM   #54
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I just went through all my posts and I can't find one that says put a supercharger on a Z32. And yes the new Titan has a supercharger, and Stillen has a supercharger kit for the new 350Z. Once again, does that make them better? NO. I have them on my car cause I want to be able to dial it in for the daily conditions and max power for that day. You have to read the words being printed and not assume anything. The only place I spoke somewhat negitave on superchargers or turbochargers, was the statment that for the bucks Nitrous is a better buy. For $300 I can get a 200+HP nitrous setup and no supercharger or turbo can match this. Period. None of this was about the Z32's or Z31's. As for which system is better for one car or another isn't even the issue, but what the engineers desided to use. Right now as we speak alot if not most engineering development is going into screwtype superchargers, why I really don't know, but I do know that the car industry go's through different cycles.
Both Mr. Mikeman and myself have been correcting a few incorrect statments, but NEVER said pull your turbo's and install a screwtype supercharger. That would be a stupid move. Please read this web. on compression vs boost. It's all FACT and is true for both turbo's and superchargers.
http://www.motorsportsdigest.com/forced2.htm

Now for the good news, I was up in San Diego the other day and they had a red 350Z. I called them today and they still have it, so I think I'll buy it.
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:29 PM   #55
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Re: Can't win em all.

yeah i know about the kit for the 350, hell i think igor's z is the one that is running 374 whp on it or something like that... pretty cool, but i still say the greddy tt kit that runs at around 430 whp is cooler the titan isn't exactly a car is it i was at the dealership a while back and those things are freaking massive... i don't understand why people need to own trucks that big... just stupid...

anyway, i see your points zgringo and i understand them, not trying to prove you wrong, just have a different view on things
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Old 09-28-2004, 04:50 PM   #56
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Re: Can't win em all.

And again...round and round we go...this will never end...and there is no way I'm going to read those posts...NOT in the mood to read that stuff. This is the last response I'm going to post on this topic...until the next time, at least:

Major Turbo pros:
  • VERY little lag on a well designed *system*. I've actually video of boost at idle.
  • Easiest adjustability. Turn a knob...
  • Less moving parts. This is only true with certain designs, but still.
  • Unlimited power potential.
  • Simpler.

-Personal oppinion-
Nothing sounds cooler than the wizz of a turbo...except that of a BOV...

Major S/C pros:
  • Virtually no lag.
Some of the fastest cars EVER PRODUCED are turboed cars...not S/C:

Porsche 959...flat 6, sequential turbo...will run with a McLaren.

Porsche 911...hell...PICK A YEAR...they're ALL extremely fast and ALL flat 6s.

Ferrari F40...twin KKK (and no, that's the maker of the turbo...not the hoody guys...) turbos.

Last Gen Mazda RX-7...Sequential turbo'd rotary...sub 5 seconds to 60 STOCK...not just "from the factory" like these SVT Mustang guys can say...these cars are STOCK...the WAY THEY WERE *ORIGINALLY* DESIGNED...

MKIV Supra...Sequential turbo'd I6...VERY low 5 seconds to 60, stock. Do the single *TURBO* conversion and I've seen them run 9s without internal mods on street tires with a full factory interior.

Our very own Z32TT...Twin Turbo'd V6...low to mid 5 sec to 60 and I've seen these run 10s on stock turbos.

And I know what you're thinking...dragsters don't used turbos cuz they're not allowed.

I don't know of many S/C'd cars that are even noteworthy.

If you like S/Cs, hey...go for it...they work...turbos and S/Cs are for the most part just different means to an end, but they're NOT the best way to do it.
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Hope you can see the tiny pic...AF reduced the size limit!

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Old 09-28-2004, 11:16 PM   #57
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Travis, Their's nothing wrong with having a different View as long as your willing to accept facts. I deal in facts and backup what I say. And unless someone trys something different and gives me the results so I have some facts to go on it's nothing more than a idea, which is OK but not a fact.
As for doing a major change, if someone wants to try something different, so be it. It's their choice. But when they ask for advice tell what your choice would be, not things which are not Fact.
Mant years ago a fellow in England designed a set of heads for the flathead Ford V8 engine. They were a overhead valve conversion for the flathead engine. Did they work? you bet they did, i had a set on my car that I raced which is now in the museum. 2 years later Ford, Chrysler and General Motors came out with the first OHV V8 engines.

Brent, You must be having a problem with facts.
Your statment:
Major Turbo pros:

* VERY little lag on a well designed *system*. I've actually video of boost at idle.
* Easiest adjustability. Turn a knob...
* Less moving parts. This is only true with certain designs, but still.
* Unlimited power potential.
* Simpler.
Very little lag...TRUE
Easiest adjustabilty FALSE You can adjust both with a knob.
Less moving parts FALSE A VG30DETT has 4 Moving parts and a Screwtype 3
Both have unlimited power potential
Simpler FALSE
But you forgot smaller good point. You also forgot simpler for general street use...good point
Your statment:
Major S/C pros:

* Virtually no lag.
Virtually no lag True
Higher VE good point
Lower Delta Temp good point
Easer to install good point

The fastest car ever produced was not turbo'ed car but a supercharged 1938 Mercedes Benz W125 269.1MPH
Some of the fastest cars in the world were supercharged also. you left out the supercharged Jaguar XJ220 S TWR

http://www.supercars.net/index-top.html

Have you ever seen a 959, other than a picture? I think not as their's only one in the USA and used only for showing. Illegal on the street. How about the turbo 911, ever have one or drive one? I use to have a turbo 911 Ruf. How fast are they?

Your statment:
Our very own Z32TT...Twin Turbo'd V6...low to mid 5 sec to 60 and I've seen these run 10s on stock turbos.

The fastest Z32 stock turbo'ed in the 1/4 I can find is 11.61. If you can prove theirs a faster one please let us all know.

http://z32racing.50megs.com/Z/_drag_...rag_lists.html

Your statment:
I don't know of many S/C'd cars that are even noteworthy.

I could name 100's if not more. Can you?

About half of what you said isn't noteworthy. Please backup your statments so we all my learn.

I don't like or dislike turbo's or screwtype superchargers. There just a means of extracting more power from a engine. Is one better than the other? NO
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:52 PM   #58
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Re: Can't win em all.

okay, you guys are saying the same thing over and over. it all depends on what you perfer, turbocharger or supercharger. they both have their pros and cons. debate over, i am tired of reading all this.

-Jared
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:19 AM   #59
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this has nothing to do with the argument but on this page...
http://z32racing.50megs.com/Z/_drag...drag_lists.html
that these 300zx are running 11's and 12's on stock turbos, that mean that the engine internals are stock also??? i dont think they would rebuild the motor without upgrading the turbos. i was just wandering.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:58 PM   #60
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K3 I personally don't know all the guy's on that list but the few I do know personally, some have install ARP bolts and some are prue stock except for ECU's, exhaust, underdrive pulleys, clutch & flywheel, driveshaft tires and wheels. The top runner is using electric fans and a electric water pump. You can boost your turbo's to the max flow but thats it.
To be classified as stock you have to have stock flow injectors, in other words, 370cc, and stock turbo's and 93 octane gasoline in the tank.
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