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Old 02-04-2010, 03:16 PM   #31
dragontrlr
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

well its running for now regardless so thanks for the help cross fingers that all else was repaired
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:22 PM   #32
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

ha. the engine only fooled me. it will start when cold and idle but not in gear, as it warms up the idle settles down and will actually idle in and out of gear. as engine gets hot back to no longer idling in gear and when finally when engine is hot will not start.

all thru this process engine is hard start but once cranked idles smooth.

checked all wires. checked map sensor it tests out. tested injectors they test. tested coil 12.8 when running, tested dist voltage 8.9v. EGR functions.

fault codes change each time i start engine and sometimes shows no codes at all except 12,55

tested TPS 5.0v on main .96-3.78 on secondary as throttle sweeps.

engine acts like it is starved for fuel during starting and acts like it is flooding when running.

when i look down in TBI i see an awful lot of fuel spraying.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:03 PM   #33
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

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Originally Posted by dragontrlr View Post
ha. the engine only fooled me. it will start when cold and idle but not in gear, as it warms up the idle settles down and will actually idle in and out of gear. as engine gets hot back to no longer idling in gear and when finally when engine is hot will not start.
Those symptoms point to a defective coolant temperature sensor, so you might want to test it, or at least inspect the wiring going to it. It's a 2-wire sensor screwed into the top of the intake manifold next to the t-stat housing.

When cold (50-80 degrees) the ohms should be 10,800-17,900. When hot (180-200 degrees) the ohms should be 1,170-820. It's in a difficult spot, so it's easier to test if you take it out and use cold water and a heat gun to vary the temperature.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:10 PM   #34
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

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Those symptoms point to a defective coolant temperature sensor, so you might want to test it, or at least inspect the wiring going to it. It's a 2-wire sensor screwed into the top of the intake manifold next to the t-stat housing.

When cold (50-80 degrees) the ohms should be 10,800-17,900. When hot (180-200 degrees) the ohms should be 1,170-820. It's in a difficult spot, so it's easier to test if you take it out and use cold water and a heat gun to vary the temperature.
just to verify. there is that kind of jump in the resistance? 10k down to 1k? i know exactly where the sensor in question is so i will test it tommorow morning.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:26 PM   #35
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

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that kind of jump in the resistance?
It's not a jump, it's gradual, the hotter the tip of the sensor gets, the lower the resistance across it's two terminals. If the sensor, it's connector, or the wiring is defective and the resistance is always high, then the PCM thinks the engine is cold and richens the mixture, just like a choke on an older carburetor engine. This is fine when the engine is cold, but as it warms up the mixture needs to lean out but doesn't if the resistance doesn't change.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:25 PM   #36
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

i assumed it was a sweeping change but i wanted to double check that you didnt have a typo sweeping from 10k down to 1k.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:30 PM   #37
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

engine fired up and idled in gear again. backed it out to work on it. once hot just wont run in gear and has trouble idling in park.

pulled temp unit. 13k cold 1100 hot. around 6k while heating it up. 4.97v at sensor wires with key in run position.

so that scraps that theory. i will say this. when it does crank the idle races up and slowly settles down. idle seems a little high with air cleaner off. if i block off the vacuum hose that goes to the air cleaner body the idle drops down.

the computer codes say TPS and the engine acts like it is either the TPS or the AIS motor. but the wires to the TPS check out good and the voltage is good to the sensor.
the back signal voltage ranges smoothly
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:47 PM   #38
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Boy oh boy do I wish you were close to me. This is really starting to test my patience. Don't take that wrong, it's nothing to do with you, it's just that all of this back and forth is so slow sometimes. If I could get my hands on it, that engine would be screaming in no time flat.

Anyways...I think it might be time to reinvestigate the possibility that the spark plug wires are not correct on the distributor cap. When looking straight down at the distributor from the back of the engine.

What o' clock position is the #1 plug wire in?
Then in what order are the rest of them going clockwise, starting at the #1?
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:26 PM   #39
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

the #1 is in the 12 oclock positon, actually to be technical i would say 2 min to 12. then clockwise and i checked twice 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:15 PM   #40
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

Indulge me and move them all one tower to the right and see if the engine runs better.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:48 PM   #41
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

no engine would not crank at all
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:16 PM   #42
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

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no engine would not crank at all
Explain please... The engine doesn't turn at all, or does it turn and stop?
Is the battery run down again?

What about if you move all of the spark plug wires 4 towers to the right (180 degrees) instead of just one on the distributor cap...does the engine start?
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:25 PM   #43
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

i have a ton of fuel spray on these injectors. at idle the inside of the TBI is soaked, did i say soaked? soaked and there is a spray not a mist. as i open throttle it increases. when butterflies are closed they are "sheeted" with fuel.

every time it stalls if i sit with the key off count to 20 it cranks back up. if i dont wait after it stalls it is hard to crank.

checked all 8 plugs all dry and black. 5,7 starting to turn brown. before repairs plugs were all brown.
if i pull off the delivery hose and turn the key on i get a dollap of fuel. i say dollap because it doesnt shoot across the room, but way more than a little trickle of fuel.

if i disconnect the return line and turn the key, fuel will shoot out about 4 inches and stop.
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:34 PM   #44
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

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Originally Posted by alloro View Post
Explain please... The engine doesn't turn at all, or does it turn and stop?
Is the battery run down again?

What about if you move all of the spark plug wires 4 towers to the right (180 degrees) instead of just one on the distributor cap...does the engine start?
okay engine turns over but i mean no start, no attempt no backfire nothing just engine turning over.

battery is run down at moment and on charger, if i move all 4 positions that would put #1 at #6. i have been there before. but will it again.

no no crank when switched.

back to my original engine cranks up. idles but wont idle in gear
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Old 02-11-2010, 04:46 PM   #45
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Re: mysterious wire and won't fire

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battery is run down at moment and on charger, if i move all 4 positions that would put #1 at #6. i have been there before. but will it again.

no no crank when switched.
Your answer is confusing to me. If the battery has to charge then how could you have done the 4 tower switch and written both of these remarks in the same post?
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