VTEC vs. SR20DE

[Jimster]

Originally posted by Moppie





And from your username I take it you used to own or still own an FTO??
I would be very interested in how you think the MIVEC compares with VTEC and VVL. From my experiance on the road its not nearly as good as either.

Ummmmm......If you look by his name he has owned a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg- that is no doubt his Mivec powered car

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Jimmy_11_cars
If you look by his name he has owned a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg- that is no doubt his Mivec powered car

I saw that after I made the post, since hes from Ireland I assumed he had one of the UK spec FTO's, but he clearly had a Cyborg instead.
Altough there a funny car, there were Turbo and MIVEC models made along side each other. (and of course there are non MIVEC or Turbo models as well)

[MIVEC]

I'd like to post a few pics of both of them but they are too big to attach, i know you can resize them but it blurrs them beyond recognition when i try, will try and sort out solution soon.

The N1 is still very drivable on roads though, it warms up extremly quickly so as you can enter the high cam mode unlike V-TEC and especially MIVEC. You can drive the guts out of the engine and know your not harming it and the gearbox is sweet enough for downchanging at high speed.

Thanks for that link, i've give it a read, i've lost count of the number of forums im a member of, i only realised i was a member of this one already when i tried to join it, lol.

I didnt have a FTO, i had a Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg RS, i dont know if you know of this car but its another one of the 4 great 1600 cc engines. It produces 175 BHP and 123 ft/lb Torque, its system is MIVEC.

I kind of prefer MIVEC than V-TEC but thats because of a more sentimental reason, because it was my first vvtl car, it has more torque down low and has a much throatier induction growl, its also rarer than V-TEC in my country so i like the oddball cars which i think is evident by now.
Im not sure if its any faster than V-TEC, i have beaten various B16A's with it along with every other hot hatch but i had a lightweight model so that would have helped me.
All those 1600cc variable valve timing are much in the muchness anyway.
In about a week, i will have a Toyota Levin BZ-R which is a 1.6 20 valve 165 BHP engine. Its a very smooth engine with a 6 speed gearbox and im pretty sure its faster than B16A coz i've seen 1/4 mile videos of it racing against Civic B16A but i will post about it again soon when i drive it and judge for myself.

The thing that lets the FTO down i think is its gear ratios, especially that of the change from 1st to 2nd when dragging.

Anyway, if anything those 2 newly mentioned cars should add something interesting to the mix.

[MIVEC]

Here is the power graph for the Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1's SR16VE Engine

[Moppie]

Thanks for the coments.
If you have trouble with the pics email them to me andrew@automotiveforums.com Im pretty good at doing good things with them.

There are a few Cyborg RS's here in NZ, but like the VZ-R they are not common.
I think Iv taken one on the road and left it behind, but I have no idea if it was an RS, or one of the lesser Cyborg models.
I certianly walk all over FTOs and V6 MIVEC Gallants.


Im not surprised the N1 engine warms up quickly, its clearly very high strung, and like all race engines will warm up quickly.
But you cant seriously say you would rather be able to get off the clutch at 1,500rpm than 1,000? and my car will pull smoothly and easily in any gear from as low as 600rpm.



And I hate to disapoint you about the 20valve 4age, it has 160 Toyota hp, which equals about 145-150 real hp.
There are plenty of dyno plots on the net to prove it, and I know someone who owns one being prepared as a race engine who dosnt think it even has 150hp (it will have more whens he done with it of course).
On the road I leave them behind with very little effort, and I feel you will be very disapointed when compared to your Pulsars.
I know someone who owns a VZR Caldina, which is the Wagon version of the Corrola with the 20V and a 6sp in it. He only bought it because it has 6 gears, but is very disapointed with the performance.
Of course being a 4age there is plenty of room for performance improvements, but the variable cam timeing then becomes a pain to work around, and since you own the N1 why bother?



oh and its VTEC not V-TEC

[MIVEC]

I've mailed you the pics. The silver one is the VZ-R and the VZ-R N1 is the white one. Cheers

The RS model i had wasnt just like other RS's, this one was well kitted out with a roll cage and lightened bodyshell and lots of other stuff but thats besides the point, It had a little performance work too though.

I dont even touch the accelerator when letting off the clutch in the N1, i dont need to, its like a diesel in that regard.
I've got a B16A also and is what im driving at the moment, its pulls from low alright, im always in fifth to save on petrol.

The latest (1997 on) 20 valve has 165 Ps. The one on its way to me has full Bomex kit, Jasma header, TRD exhaust, Induction & other stuff i dont know about yet, i might have it dynoed, i hoping 175-180 at flywheel.

I actually sold the N1 not very long ago but theres another on the way.
The V-TEC thing is like smoking, its a habit and i know its wrong !

[Moppie]

Originally posted by MIVEC


The latest (1997 on) 20 valve has 165 Ps.

No they dont. According to Toyota they do, but its an exagerated number.
They are very common cars here in NZ (you get swarms of them buzzing around the city on weekends, Im undecied if thier worse than the misqiteos or not) and its pretty common knowledge that they have less than the quoted power figure.
about 150hp seems to be the commonly accepted number at the moment.
The last of the Super charged cars had about 160hp, and are almost as quick as my car.

and Ill get to work on those pics right away.
They make a nice addition to my collection.

[Jimster]

What is the retail on a Levin 20v in Ireland??? Oh and might I suggesta 156 :finger: j/p

[MIVEC]

A 1999 Levin BZ-R in excellent condition and a few mods in Ireland is worth over 16,000 Euros from a private seller or whatever the buyer is willing to pay and a couple more grand from a garage most likely. This car is expensive from Japan to begin with anyway.

My mother has a Alfa Romeo 156 with bodykit already so inkow whats its like, nice car.


P.S: There is some very informative threads on the SR20DE forums about the SR VE Engines, how to tune them, swap & interchange them etc. Some serious power can be got from these engines.
I've been reading threads from around the world for over 5 hours now about Hondas VTEC Engines and Nissans NEO VVL and Turbo Engines.

[Moppie]

Well share some of the links on the NEO VVL engines will ya!!!!!

And that is a very expensive Levin, I won't tell you what even the newer ones sell for down here. But they are not that expensive to get out of Japan. (unless Ireland has large import dutys)


anyway I got the pics done, here ya go:



Pics of MIVECs Pulsars:

The VZ-R








The now sold VZ-R N1

[jrthedrifter]

Hello, have you guys heard of ENGINE SWAPS!!! One of my friends has a 93 civic hatch cx with a b20Z fully built and a whopping turbo that is unstoppable in my area... he's beat supras with twin turbo... Point is, a civic is light as hell... put a turbo in a 240sx and put a turbo in a civic... what do you get... in a 240 you get a turboed car that has more power, but is heavy as hell... In a civic you get a turboed car that has more power but is light as hell... Who's gonna win? I think we can figure that one out with little to no problems... Matter of fact everyone on here is talking about ooooo the b16a with no torpue... why hasn't anyonw said SR20de against the B18C... they're in the same category... My Best friend has a four door GSR that is stock and it whooped on a 91 nissan sentra SE-R... Got the tape to prove it... None of you Meeches can explain why the gsr engine has so much pull with only 170 horses and 127 pounds of torque... If that mystery could be solved by anyone other than honda, then Ford Focuses would be whooping on GSR's... I don't care what anybody says about an SR20de motor... It's whack without the "T" in front of it... If it's not an SR20DeT then I don't even wanna see it typed, because too many of those de's are getting whooped on around these parts... But mention the SR20DET, and I start smiling...

So, point is, the B16A is out of style, because it is torqueless and everybody knows that... I shouldn't hear see the letters F20C from the S2000 and SR20DE in the same sentence... If you don't understand go buy some scrubs from your local hospital wear shop and go test drive an S2000 (they'll think you're a doctor, but don't go talkin' all ghetto, cuz they'll start asking too many questions )The SR20DE should be placed in the category with the B18C1 GSR motor, and the SR20DE does NOT out perform it... If you don't believe me and you've never seen it with your own eyes in your home town, get hispeed internet and download a couple of videos from Kazaa or something and eat some popcorn and download a couple of resumes and pretend that you have a future!!! However a smile will be placed on any of our faces everytime we see a sweet SR20DET motor... Because whether you're a honda fan or a Nissan fan, you gotta love Nissans, or you're considered a Meech in my book... I'm sure at least 60 percent of you will agree with me on this one... Especially if you've driven all these cars, cuz if you haven't, you shouldn't even be typing responses to these threads... Peace Out!

[REAL PERFORMANCE]

Really Folks what is the deal. I recognize that the honda B series engine is an awesome engine, but why dog on the nissan engine. You say that it does not rev. Mine revs to just under 8000rpm with no problem. Granted the power drops off drastically at 7k. That just means that my power comes on quicker which aids in acceleration. You say that it costs a ton of money to make the DE fast. I have a 100 shot and can run easy 13.5s on the stock tires. I love the honda motors. But to say that a sr20de will never beat a gsr in NA trim, well that is down right stupid. I read this entire post and got the impression that 14 year olds should not have the internet at their disposal. I regularly beat GSR's with my "classic" without usinng my Nitrous. I even beat The RSX type S. I also whup on mildly modofied WRX's. I am not saying my car is invincible, because i have lost my fare share of races too(in my nissan, never in my mustang) I have friends with modofied GSR's and SI's that admit that my car is damn fast. It just seems to me that you guys are unedducated in anything but what Super street feeds you.

In all honesty the GSR has way mor technology, but it does not have the torque. My car will beat a Vorteched b16 dynoing 245whp through 2nd gear without the nitrous, and will whup it through all gear with the nitrous. Lets not get started on the immature babbling that mkes many honda owners seem uneducated.

All the engines are great engines. The sr20ve can produce copious amounts of power and can rev to over 9000 rpm with a cam and spring swap. So can a gsr. but the B18 does not have the tourque, and its power curve is very peaky. Nissan build engines with torque, and flat power curves. If you dont believe me, you have never driven a nissan or seen first hand dyno testing.

My 2 cents. Please e-mail me if you have any real questions.

[Fast Guy]

If I've done this right this is a rolling road print out of my totally standard Pulsar Gtir (sr20det) with absolutely no mods, not even an air filter. AND slightly less boost than it should. It's a 92 jap import in the uk.






http://community.webshots.com/sym/im...5DATfdg_ph.jpg

[MIVEC]

Well, 3 VZ-R N1's on and i still think its better, otherwise why would i keep buying them ?
Heres a post that ought to get things going again.
For anybody who doubts it
here is a link to a VCD video of the Nissan Pulsar VZ-R N1 kicking the Civic Type-R's ass, im not joking, the guy is toying with him !!!
It then goes up against a 280 BHP SPOON Civic Type-R and leads the entire race.
On the webpage listed below, it is the very last video.

http://www.pulsar.org.au/multimedia/videos.php

Also, for it to work you will need to download this codec software
located at www.divx.com and install it.
dont bother downloading the divx Pro, the standard divx will do.

Look foward to the feedback

L8r, enjoy..

[ballsoutracecar]

both motors, SR20DE and B16A are very good.

I believe the B16A is a better motor stock though.

I think Honda also make more power with less boost if turboed aswell.

Ive seen and read in a respected high performance magazine an S15 SR20ET with quite a few mods and running 16psi make 215KW @ the wheels and a B18C (ITR) with stock internals and blowing only 6psi making 220KW @ the wheels. All dyno proven.

thats a big difference when psi is concerned.

all in all im biased towards Honda as they engineer cars more to my liking (free revving NA street legal circuit racers, well Type R models anyway and thats what i'm talking about) but i dont discredit Nissan.

When every 2nd cars a Skyline or Silvia and every third cars a WRX its nice to see an clean NA Honda keeping it up with the best of them.

Honda is for the purist, Nissan for the turbo power hungry masses.