300ZX vs. RX-7 vs. Supra

[Steel]

Originally posted by RazorGTR


Exactlly ! It makes more noise that it goes ffs. I'f I could any input into I would ban the full stop. sorry guys but that engine has lived well past its expire date.

how do you mean, lived past its expire date?

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

since theres an RX8 i disagree with that statement

[ZBlacktt]

I see these kinds of post from forum to forum. I see like a lot of Opinions and that's great . So I'd like to mostly talk with the select few that come across in a more technical point of view mostly to the Supra and 300zx guys. I have two 300zx twin turbo's myself. All my friends have Supra's and I love both cars, Z more but by personal taste in overall sports car looks and style, again my opinion there.

Some of my thoughts:

Yes, I want and will have a Supra ( Black 94 to 97 TT ). I have had the luxury of having most of my friends with those and little Z's. Whenever I drove my best friends two Supra's. It felt like a totally different car. The interior plays on you like a much bigger car with the 4 seats and a dash that is conformed to the driver mostly. The stock look in my opinion needs something, where the Z sits as is looks awesome. I love the power of the Supra sure but in no way shape or form is it worth the dollar signs where seeing today. It's a sellers market plain and simple, but when you get it, you'll go quickly into depression unless it's modified with a motor that very healthy. People are selling them like we see for three reasons. One for the rarity of the car. It sold far less cars than Nissan and it's not coming back looking like it did for it's tenure. Two, potential, it's one of the best platforms of creating monster power from so little. Three, magazines and movies play it out to be so simple and so reliable, when it's not. They leak, scratch, break, bust just like any other car. Sometimes it takes a person that's a little more grounded to see in the end, it's just a car.

Now some facts on the two:

Stock Twin turbo Supra

Horsepower 320 HP
Torque 315 ft/lb
Max boost 11 psi
Rev limiter 6800rpm
Compression ratio 8.5:1
Injectors 540 cc
Low Impedance Low Impedance
Inlet Cam Duration 233 deg
Inlet Cam Lift 8.25mm
Airflow Measurement Airflow sensor

Turbo's:

Sequential Turbo's CT12B(export)
Turbine Size 52mm/44mm
Compressor Size 58mm/39mm
Turbine material Steel
Scroll area (mm^2) 740
A/R ratio 0.53


Stock Twin turbo Z

Horsepower (SAE net) 300 bhp @6400 rpm2
Torque (SAE net) 283 lb-ft @ 3600 rpm
Max boost 9.8 psi
Redline 7000rpm
Compression ratio 8.5:1
Displacement 181 cu in, 2960 cc
Bore x stroke 3.43 x 3.27 in, 87 x 83 mm


Turbo's:

Stock TB02/22
T2 map
1.57"/40mm Inducer Diameter (in./mm)
2.02"/51mm Exducer Diameter (in./mm)
TB22 Housing
304 max CFM
T22/ 69 Wheel
1.53"/38.9mm Exducer Diameter (in.)
1.85"/47mm Inducer Diameter (in.)
T25 Housing, Flange

Ok, not trying to make this difficult or to deep. Look at the stock parts and sizes we have here. One can clearly see the Supra has bigger turbo's and bigger injectors from the start. Both motors have the same displacement, same bore and compression ratio with the Supra given 2psi more. Given that extra pressure with bigger turbo's and injectors is where it gets that 20Hp rating more than the Z. Plus the motor generates more power pre liter of a 106.77 bhp to the Z's 101.35 bhp per liter.

Now take these same two cars, give the Z's the same parts, in this case a Set of Nismo 555cc injectors and a set of one size up Sport 500 turbo's which is about the same size as stock Supra turbo's. You will see the same performance in power. I have dyno sheets of Z's with just those bolt on's on landing 453rwhp and 505rwtq. I have video's as well of one racing a BPU+ Supra and beating him open and fair on the freeway at 60mph. So the cars are well matched when your given the same size parts. The cost between to two cars from the start gives the Z owner a $10,000 avg. leeway to make those changes with labor involved.

Where the Supra looks to be the king is this. Turbo placement. The Z is never going to match it simply due to design and room. The turbo's on the V-6 motor are on the underside and next to the frame of the car. Yes, it can fit large turbo's, ones like TD06/25's or HKS 2835's which will do close to if not 800rwhp. But the price is nearly double the Supra in parts/labor. Z motors have to be pulled regardless. Because of the routing of the new intercooler pipes, tubular exhaust manifolds etc. There are a handful of these cars in the works right now and I can give you guys links to them if you'd like to see them. I know all of them very well and all of them will tell you what a pain it has been and very very costly.

So the Supra is easier to upgrade and proven. So the best way to look at this is with these facts.

Now JUN having endless money and horsepower at there disposal took the Supra and Z to BONNEVILLE. Each with there respected OEM motors built in accordance to the conditions on which they where going to perform to (Top Speed ). Now the Supra having two TRUST T78 turbo's, so Max output 1200ps, Max torque 100kgm!! Still fell way short of the Z with it's VGTT motor. A 249.292mph (401.20km/h) for the Supra and a 260mph (419.84 km/h) for the Z. Now another thing to notice was the time in when each car did there's. The Z had only been in production one year before setting a world record and the Supra made it's mark some 10 years later ( 1991 to 2001 ). The Z had KKK27 turbo's which over came two Greddy T78 turbo's and beat it by 20mph is amazing. Seeing that each MPH must be like having 10 more horsepower to achieve. Was it power or aerodynamics' or the V motor is better at top in balance? This speed record stll stands today, look at there site.

Pro Drag racing? Z's with there VG30Dett motor's are running low, low 7's and are sure to break into the 6's this season. Where other imports are using V8's to do this.

Jorge Lazcano-Contreras(PR) 7.09sec @ 190mph NJ,5/4

Hiroshi Shiobara-Escort(JPN) 7.43sec @ 179mph FL,4/13


Z's are running 11 second times as well on there ( get this ) stock smaller turbo's. Here's just two of them. Also look to see, they don't have very many parts as well.

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/directo...?user_id=33768

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/directory.aspx?user_id=727

Z's are Dynoing over 400rwhp and 450rwtq on those same smaller turbo's. Like I have said up top. I have many friends with Supra's. All of them are built and over the 550rwhp mark. I can seen you pictures, names and links of that as well. Just trying to clear of this myth here.

As far as RX/7's, love them, but fragile cars, seen them brake many times, but there awesome as well.

[LancasterWannaBe]

What did the supra retail for in the mid-late 1990s?
How about the rex?

[studley]

Rx7 rules

[ZBlacktt]

Had one of the lower modded Z's Dyno today. Fully STOCK long block. Means Heads, internals everything.

Here's mods.

HKS twin pop charger SGP underdrive pulley
JWT ECU & ASHS Dyno tuned power chip
nismo 555 injectors
Greddy td05's w external blowoff
Z1 big FMIC
TEST PIPES&DOWN PIPES 3"
APEXI AVC R BOOST CONTROLLER
NOS 75 SHOT WITH FOGGER ON INTERCOOLERS

That's it, bolt on's.

So you got those upgraded injectors I talked about, with a set of TDo5/16g turbo's which are just over 500cfm ea. So good flowing turbo's. Many Z's have them and they all land around 520 to 550 ( depends on heads ). The NOS, well self explanatory.

So a Stock Z got out there to day and did this on that NOS shot and 22psi.

741.1RWHP at 679ft/lbs of rear wheel torque

If picture doesn't come threw, click link for full story

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg...&msg_id=952522

Again, fully stock motor. Many of the Supra's you see at least have heads and 272 cams doing numbers this high. These are not a big turbos either and not one of the many monters Z's in the works now

[300zxblackTT]

Originally Posted by Supra650RSP

How can you say that the Z has the biggest power potential out of the three of these cars? First off, through very simple modifications(BPU) the Supra pushes well over 400 rwhp. Secondly, I have seen consistant horsepower numbers that range in the quad-digits with Supras. Please, find me a Z pushing 1000+hp numbers. And third, the number of 600 plus horsepower Supras is far greater than the number of Z's on the road pushing those kinds of numbers. Not only that, a lot of those 600 plus cars are daily driven.

Side note: I thought the RX-7 had 320 bhp stock

http://www.z1motorsports.com/Dyno.php
there ya go!

First off noone has yet to mention that nissan is the better car PERIOD!
the 300zx is the little baby brother to the biggest and baddest import car that has ever DOMINATED the import scene and thats the Nissan Skyline R34GTR So if you really wanna know who the better car ppl are then do your homework Supras can never come close to do what skylines can do! I mean to get a supra in the low 10s takes a shit load of money whereas a Skyline can hit Low8 high 7's with little money at all! Hmmmmm whitch is the better car company here? Now the 300zx whitch i have is a Daily driver at 850tuned at the rear Wheels ya i put about 5000 into the motor but was worth it to get the numbers i wanted! Supras are a joke! I have Video upon Videos that i can post showing you supras getting slapped around by 300zx and/or Skylines! Want to talk about reliablity go with Nissan again! Looks 300zx looks sleeker!

Overall 300zx is the best car for perfomance reliablity and stlye! HANDS DOWN!
Much rather have the SKYLINE R34 though! but o well

[CivRacer95]

Dude seriously, if this were two years ago, maybe somebody might have cared about your comment. But before you ever post again in another thread. Check the dates so you don't bring back threads from the dead. K? L8...

[SiGNAL748]

Don't tell me it took you two years to type up that post....

[dampachi]

Even then, I doubt it. Don't bring up old threads!

[Ace$nyper]

OK picture this your walking around at the watercooler at work and bust into to the groupd and yell "Guys!!!! you'll never belive me but were going to war with japan! They just bombed a base!"

thats pretty much what you just did

[Polygon]

And on that bomb this is closed.

As they said, don't bring up old threads.