cut on the sidewall of my tire

[manumr2408]

Hello Folks,

I have noticed this cut on my front tire sidewall. This is something I should worry about or is it ok to ignore?.

Thanks in advance

[aleekat]

Non-repairable. Replace it immediately! Dangerous to drive on it.

[RidingOnRailz]

Replace in pairs, and put the replacement pair on the rear axle.

Transfer two of the ‘best’ existing(highest tread remaining - measure!) to the front.

[shorod]

Originally Posted by RidingOnRailz

Replace in pairs, and put the replacement pair on the rear axle.

Transfer two of the ‘best’ existing(highest tread remaining - measure!) to the front.

What's the theory there? Since the tires in the image appear to be snow tires (lots of little snowflakes molded into the sidewalls), and the presumably the vehicle is a typical car/truck where the majority of the braking and the steering is done by the front wheels (and if front wheel drive, these are the driven wheels as well), why not put the newest tires on the front to maximize the ability to stop, steer, and maybe even accelerate?


-Rod

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by shorod

What's the theory there? Since the tires in the image appear to be snow tires (lots of little snowflakes molded into the sidewalls), and the presumably the vehicle is a typical car/truck where the majority of the braking and the steering is done by the front wheels (and if front wheel drive, these are the driven wheels as well), why not put the newest tires on the front to maximize the ability to stop, steer, and maybe even accelerate?


-Rod

Putting new tires on the rear is supposed to prevent the back end from losing grip first. If that happens, the rear comes around and you lose the ability to steer until the car comes to a stop.

Putting new tires on the rear results in a car that can be steered after the car drops below a certain speed.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by manumr2408

Hello Folks,

I have noticed this cut on my front tire sidewall. This is something I should worry about or is it ok to ignore?.

Thanks in advance

[Images deleted to save space]

Look deep into the cut for any signs of fabric (white). If you see any, replace the tire.

If you don't keep an eye on it to see if it grows. If it does, replace the tire.

What I do in situations such as this is take a paint stick and draw an arrow pointing at what I want to observe. That way I don't have to search for it every time. I also write myself a reminder on my schedule.

[fred653]

I had one worse than what u show, most places won't repair it, but I found one place that would do it but had me sign a waiver stating I would NOT use it as a running tire, as a spare I was okay (short hop) They patched the inside and then put a tube in a tube less tire. My suggest is get a new tire and NO yu do not have to buy 2.

[RidingOnRailz]

Originally Posted by fred653

I had one worse than what u show, most places won't repair it, but I found one place that would do it but had me sign a waiver stating I would NOT use it as a running tire, as a spare I was okay (short hop) They patched the inside and then put a tube in a tube less tire. My suggest is get a new tire and NO yu do not have to buy 2.

It's not a requirement to replace tires in pairs, but it is recommended by many experts, including at at least one on these forums.

[Blue Bowtie]

Originally Posted by fred653

I had one worse than what u show, most places won't repair it, but I found one place that would do it but had me sign a waiver stating I would NOT use it as a running tire, as a spare I was okay (short hop) They patched the inside and then put a tube in a tube less tire. My suggest is get a new tire and NO yu do not have to buy 2.

I'd hate to try to remember how may tractor tires with cracked sidewalls I've seen that way. Of course, 25 MPH road speed is a bit different than 70. Then again, most of them take a lot more load than highway vehicle tires.

[Blue Bowtie]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

Putting new tires on the rear is supposed to prevent the back end from losing grip first. If that happens, the rear comes around and you lose the ability to steer until the car comes to a stop.

Putting new tires on the rear results in a car that can be steered after the car drops below a certain speed.

I understand that has been the technical recommendation for more than a decade. How does that affect the scheduled rotation (7,500 miles) when the replacement tires are "X"ed or "H"ed (directional carcasses) to the opposite axle?

As for the industry suggestion, it seems to hold water like a screen door when RWD or 4WD (priority rear) is involved on a vehicle with better than 60/40 weight distribution. Is there a deeper explanation?

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

I understand that has been the technical recommendation for more than a decade. How does that affect the scheduled rotation (7,500 miles) when the replacement tires are "X"ed or "H"ed (directional carcasses) to the opposite axle? .....

It doesn't. On the other hand, if you rotate tires like you suggest, then all 4 tires are going to wear out at more or less the same time, so you don't have the problem of where to put the new tires.

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

....... As for the industry suggestion, it seems to hold water like a screen door when RWD or 4WD (priority rear) is involved on a vehicle with better than 60/40 weight distribution. Is there a deeper explanation?

The problem of a vehicle spinning out due to a difference in tread depth front to rear applies regardless of drive arrangement. The concern is wet and/or snow traction - both of which are very closely tied to tread depth and hardly tied to drive arrangement.

[Blue Bowtie]

Thank you for the information about rotation. I was actually thinking of a more drastic example of a set of tires with 20K or more (arguably 1/2 to 1/3 of expected life) and one of them having a carcass or sidewall failure. The conventional reaction might be to install a new matching pair on one of the axles. After 7,500 miles those "new" tires would end up on the opposite end if typical rotation protocols were observed.

I think I understand the point you are trying to make about the steering, but real world experience has taught me that a dynamic (moving) vehicle can be "steered" from either end with a RWD chassis with relatively equal weight distribution. That directional control (steering) can be a combination of turning wheel input along with control of the driving wheels' traction and dynamic motion of the vehicle. This applies to dry pavement as well as rain, snow, and ice. It even works with motorcycles and snowmobiles, and is actually practiced to make those even faster through turns on marginal traction surfaces.

If this seems irrational, discuss it at some length with anyone who has ever ground-looped aircraft with a tail wheel. The rudder becomes the "rear wheel input" if you don't want to tumble it. This is also the reasoning for a locking tail wheel on larger aircraft in this configuration where rudder is less effective compared to the mass and dynamic forces.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

Thank you for the information about rotation. I was actually thinking of a more drastic example of a set of tires with 20K or more (arguably 1/2 to 1/3 of expected life) and one of them having a carcass or sidewall failure. The conventional reaction might be to install a new matching pair on one of the axles. After 7,500 miles those "new" tires would end up on the opposite end if typical rotation protocols were observed.

I think I understand the point you are trying to make about the steering, but real world experience has taught me that a dynamic (moving) vehicle can be "steered" from either end with a RWD chassis with relatively equal weight distribution. That directional control (steering) can be a combination of turning wheel input along with control of the driving wheels' traction and dynamic motion of the vehicle. This applies to dry pavement as well as rain, snow, and ice. It even works with motorcycles and snowmobiles, and is actually practiced to make those even faster through turns on marginal traction surfaces.

If this seems irrational, discuss it at some length with anyone who has ever ground-looped aircraft with a tail wheel. The rudder becomes the "rear wheel input" if you don't want to tumble it. This is also the reasoning for a locking tail wheel on larger aircraft in this configuration where rudder is less effective compared to the mass and dynamic forces.

Clearly, when we have the odd situation where you have tires with different tread depths, front to rear, then the best course of action changes.

Regarding "steering" a vehicle by use of the throttle: Most people not only don't know you can do that, but couldn't even after being informed. But the real danger isn't in the steering (understeer vs oversteer) but when the tires lose traction. The opportunity for recovery is better with the vehicle is pointed ahead, rather than trying to keep the rears more or less behind the fronts, particularly for an untrained driver.

[Blue Bowtie]

Dirt track cars usually have the front wheels steered to the the right while actually turning to the left. However, as you indicated, the vehicle is generally pointed in the intended direction of travel. When that no longer happens it is frequently unrecoverable, just as you indicated.

The same can be done on pavement with street tires, but can be less forgiving. Some practice is required to become familiar with the dynamics. Even with that, and as you also indicated, one danger can present itself not only when a tire loses traction but when it also regains traction. The latter can be even more dangerous.

A guy at 2,500 feet picking out a path for a left leg might have time to think about all those little nuances, and maybe even run down the lap sheet checklist under the approach plates as a reminder to click the rudder trim tab a few notches to offset torque, apply partial flap, and (oh, yeah..) extending the landing gear might be a good idea. Landing lights are a "meh, I can see where I'm going" less critical item other than finesse and style points.

Someone scooting up the off ramp at 50 MPH and encountering ice patches doesn't often have that kind of time to pull out the owners manual and review the suggested operating procedures. An abandoned parking lot under 4-6" of snow is an excellent place to learn vehicle dynamics and control, in lieu of reviewing the table of contents while testing out the guard rails. Even though we can write about it ad nauseam and infinitum, any of that practice time can really be far more beneficial.

[Blue Bowtie]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

Clearly, when we have the odd situation where you have tires with different tread depths, front to rear, then the best course of action changes.

A recent case in point of that, take a 2020 Buick Encore with 14,000 miles. The "wonderful" Continental tires supplied with the vehicle experienced a sidewall failure and the stealership replaced that one tire. Eight months later, another one of Der Führer's tires on an opposite corner suffered the same failure. I could have let them roll on another replacement, and would have had quite a varied representation of carcass age and treads.

"Would have" except that I resolved it by replacing all of them with Goodyears with a better load index.

I'm guessing that I am not the only one who has ever replaced a single or pair of tires.