Too early for GT500 vs '07 Skyline GTR?

[kman10587]

I was actually getting my info from Car and Driver's article, not Motor Trend's.

Big power isn't much good unless it gets to the ground without excessive wheelspin, which is why the production GT500 will have a lot more rear tire than the New York show car, which hunkered over a set of 19-inch wheels wearing 255/45 tires. The initial production run of GT500s will roll on 9.5-by-18-inch wheels with sticky Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires—255/45 front, 285/40 rear.

"We just couldn't get the 255s to hook up," says O'Connell. "Almost every run was going up in smoke."

The test mule's responses were colored by mild understeer—not too surprising, given the weight distribution and big disparity between the front and rear contact patches. And not unwelcome, since it makes the car's responses predictable. Which is just what the SVT guys want.

"What we want is a little bit of steady-state understeer," says Tom Chapman, SVT's vehicle dynamics supervisor. "We don't want to overdo it on agility, but we still want it to be fun to drive. Besides, we figure the driver can correct for understeer with his right foot any time he wants."

There you have the chief vehicle engineer admitting that agility is not the vehicle's number one priority. They are designed the handling to be acceptable given the car's power, but they're not designing it to be outstanding by any means. If you want outstanding handling for that kind of money, you can buy an Evo, STi, or 350Z. The GT500 is made with one thing distinctly in mind: power.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

At $70,000, you can keep your Nissan/Infiniti, I'll take a Porsche 997 thank you very much.

Nice car, but watch out for RMS.

RMS

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by fairladyz_gt-r

The Z06 is 500hp (if i remeber correctly) i bet it will be lighting fast, but i think given GT-R's gizmodo maybe it be able to slice the Z06, and as for the 997 comment i think that's quite ignorent, alot of ppl think that because is Japanese it will never be better then German, while they never even driven a Japanese sport car before. The R34 Skyline GT-R can do a mid 7min lap around the Nurburgring, i highly doubt a normal 997 will even be able to crack 8min barrier.

The new Corvette Z06 has 505 hp.

New Z06

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

if you want a bigger motor thrown in a well-designed car get the GT500.

A more powerful engine is not the only thing the new GT500 has.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

the funny thing is, at the risk of sounding more than a little cynical, i don't think that ford are going to do anything drastically new to a mustang beyond a bigger engine (and reworked suspension to cope), anytime soon and hence it's pretty safe to compare mustangs up to the year 2015.......

Ford is developing a new 3.5 liter V-6.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

i doubt the Cobra will have a much better response to aftermarket upgrades if nissan uses this particular engine.

690 hp is available for 2003-2004 Mustang SVT Cobras (4.6 liter V-8) from factory performance parts. There is a huge aftermarket for Mustangs.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by kman10587

I was actually getting my info from Car and Driver's article, not Motor Trend's.





There you have the chief vehicle engineer admitting that agility is not the vehicle's number one priority. They are designed the handling to be acceptable given the car's power, but they're not designing it to be outstanding by any means. If you want outstanding handling for that kind of money, you can buy an Evo, STi, or 350Z. The GT500 is made with one thing distinctly in mind: power.

They want safe understeer. The BMW M3 has some understeer for safe handling. Why not wait to drive the car before writing it off?

Anyways, the GT500 will be a GT car.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by 9eleventb0

That said, I don't know how easily the car will respond to major mods though. I'm sure that to an extent the car will surely be modifiable, as modification was certiainly a highlight of previous GT-Rs. But since the R35 won't be using the mighty straight 6 from previous generations, I'm not sure if the engine is going to be able to handle some of the massive power outputs that the the older skylines were putting out.

it will resond well to major mods if they do indeed use the highly talked about VQ32DETT. people refuse to understand that the RB series was dropped in favor of the VQ because the VQ is superior, not because nissan got up one morning and decided to make some changes. the VQ is a far superior and more up to date motor than the RB series so dont be surprised to see this motor easily modified well beyond what you would expect. if you have ever read...the hardest thing for 350Z/G35 tuners to oversome is fuel managment, not the engines capabilities. with the higher compression of the VQ35DE it can still hold enormous amount of boost for an otherwise internally stock motor. its rather impressing...

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

690 hp is available for 2003-2004 Mustang SVT Cobras (4.6 liter V-8) from factory performance parts. There is a huge aftermarket for Mustangs.

obviously you have never heard of Nismo or of the RB26DETT...it is just as easy to see big power gains as any mustang. look it up...

you obviously have never heard of combining posts either...

[supdawg79]

The new GT-R is going to outperform just about everything on the market when it makes it debut.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

obviously you have never heard of Nismo or of the RB26DETT...it is just as easy to see big power gains as any mustang. look it up...

you obviously have never heard of combining posts either...

I've heard of Nismo, but the aftermarket for the Mustang in North America is bigger than the Skyline or the 350Z.

Who cares about combining posts?

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by ghostx

Well, of course Ford cooooouuuuld do that, but I'd rather see a new Mustang with a n/a 5.0L or 5.4L. Lighter, packing an IRS, and right around 30-35k.

That's a good idea too. Such a car would help fill in the huge gap between the 300hp Mustang GT and the 450-475hp GT500.

However, I'm talking about a car that would be an even better performer than the GT500. With such a high weight and less power, the GT500 won't be able to keep up with the Z06. A lighter, better handling, and more powerful GT350 could turn the tide.

The GT350 would have less interior amenities than the GT500 and Mustang GT, but a bit more than the Mustang Cobra R. Handling and lower weight would be key. Even the Cobra R was 3589lbs, and the later supercharged Cobras were over 3600lbs. That might sound like a lot, but it's better than this 4000lbs some of you are talking about for the GT500. Maybe the weight of the older cars could be a goal for the GT350.

I didn't know it until recently, but the original GT500 was the 'softer' car, while the GT350 was the hardcore car. I figured the GT500 was faster just because of the bigger number, but the opposite was true. Instead of offering the Shelby GR-1, a GT350 might be easier for Ford to do.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

I've heard of Nismo, but the aftermarket for the Mustang in North America is bigger than the Skyline or the 350Z.

Who cares about combining posts?

that is irrelevant...the skyline isnt even offered to the US so i would hope the mustang aftermarket would be bigger. plus, we werent discussing whos aftermarket is bigger. we were discussion the capabilities of these motors and the power you can gain from simple modifications. bottom line: the previous skylines had a huge aftermarket and they were easy to mod just like the mustang. the mustang is no better and probably will not be any better but we cannot determine this yet so it is a lost caused to get your panties in a bunch about it.

just remember: if the VQ32DETT is built and placed in the GTR's engine bay...it will be a monster stock and it will take very well to modifications just like its predecessors.

also, do some searching on Nismo...it is huge and its not just the 350Z, it is all Nissan cars as a whole. Nismo takes Nissan's performance cars to new heights...check out the Nismo R34 GT-R Z-Tune.

BTW: im sure there are soem people that care about combining posts...instead of people havign to skip over several worthless posts, they can skip over 1.

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

A more powerful engine is not the only thing the new GT500 has.

It may as well...bottom line, it will not be anywhere close to the cars mentioned about in this thread. If you want an all around performance car, Ford offeres the GT. Otherwise Ford dedicates most of their products for straight line performance ebcause this is what the American Economy thrives upon.

i remember ford trying to offer an IRS on the 05 mustang but they heard nothing but complaints from the mustang community about them dropping the obselete solid axle. a company builds cars to sell, so if the people want inferior technology, thats what they will get.

[Jaguar D-Type]

Originally Posted by k3smostwanted

Otherwise Ford dedicates most of their products for straight line performance ebcause this is what the American Economy thrives upon.

i remember ford trying to offer an IRS on the 05 mustang but they heard nothing but complaints from the mustang community about them dropping the obselete solid axle. a company builds cars to sell, so if the people want inferior technology, thats what they will get.

So the Ford Falcon is dedicated only for straight line performance?

Ford Falcon

The new Mustang has won four races in Grand-Am Cup.

http://www.grandamerican.com/

[kman10587]

It may as well...bottom line, it will not be anywhere close to the cars mentioned about in this thread. If you want an all around performance car, Ford offeres the GT. Otherwise Ford dedicates most of their products for straight line performance ebcause this is what the American Economy thrives upon.

The way you worded makes it sound like the Mustang GT has poor handling, which isn't true by any stretch of the imagination. What is true, though, is that the Mustang, along with most other pony cars, have always been viewed primarily as cheap and powerful drag racers. Sure, the handling on some of them happens to be quite good (I'm always sticking up for the Camaro and Firebird, for example), but it's still not what the car is meant for in the eye of the general public. Like k3 said, a company builds cars to sell, and since the Mustang has always thrived due to its low price and high torque, that's what people expect out of it.

[k3smostwanted]

Originally Posted by Jaguar D-Type

So the Ford Falcon is dedicated only for straight line performance?

Ford Falcon

The new Mustang has won four races in Grand-Am Cup.

http://www.grandamerican.com/

if you re-read my post...i said that "the american economy thrives upon". which would elead one to assume i was talking about Ford America...not any other country. i think it was you that tried to exclude the Japanese market when talking about the Skyline and now you include the Austrailian market when talking about Ford. i will repeat, Ford, just like any other car manufacturer, builds cars to suit the public...the European Ford industry has a whole different line of cars that offer much much better all around performance cars than does the American market.

i never said that the mustang was a bad handling car...i simply said, it will and does not handle better than any of the cars mentioned in this thread. if you find this incorrect...i think you should open your mind a little and do some comparing of your own and then come back with a valid argument.

the porsche, GTR, Z06, etc will be and are dedficated to all around best performance values...the GT500 will not be so much because this is not what they are buildign it for. if it were it would be in the same price range as the before-mentioned.

Originally Posted by kman10587

The way you worded makes it sound like the Mustang GT has poor handling, which isn't true by any stretch of the imagination. What is true, though, is that the Mustang, along with most other pony cars, have always been viewed primarily as cheap and powerful drag racers. Sure, the handling on some of them happens to be quite good (I'm always sticking up for the Camaro and Firebird, for example), but it's still not what the car is meant for in the eye of the general public. Like k3 said, a company builds cars to sell, and since the Mustang has always thrived due to its low price and high torque, that's what people expect out of it.

ahh...but you know this is not what i meant at all. i was simply stating that it will not be anywhere close to what a Z06, porsche 911, and the new GTR can do on a track.
it will be a pony car, not a detuned race car. you simply cannot expect a $40k car built, first and fore most, for straight line performance and stick in a class of cars dedicated to be the best performing sports cars under $100k.
japanese and european companies dont and probably will never have a car that will compete directly with the american pony cars that are recently coming back to life. these companies build cars to suit their own market and then offer it to the US...so in general, in other countries, you have people that are into much different types of performance which leads to these companies producing cars built directly for this type of performance.