Muscle Cars Today

[beef_bourito]

What do you guys think of the muscles cars from back in the day that are still around (Camaro, Corvette, Mustang...) do you think they are at all what they used to be? What about the GTO that Pontiac is bringing back? Is it worthy of the name of the car that started the muscle car era?
Also what about the Dodge Viper, 500hp and 505lbs/ft torque, the most muscle-car like car around in my oppinion.
I think that of all the muscle cars that used to be great, the only one worth buying anymore is the corvette. now i'm not saying it is still a muscle car, it used to be one but now it's more like a modern sports car without all of the low-end torque of real muscle cars. The camarro that chevy had around for a little while recently was just, in my oppinion, a civic-like small car without any power whatsoever. And the Mustang, used to be pretty good, now a sad excuse for a sports car.
Hope to hear your oppinions.

[Layla's Keeper]

A: Read up a little on your muscle car history. The horsepower war in detroit started with Chrysler in 1955 when they introduced the 300 with its Hemi. Then you started seeing Paxton blown T-birds, fuelie 283's, and so forth.

B: GTO is a Ferrari name first and foremost. To the point where Pontiac was paying royalties to the Scuderia to keep their asses out of the fire. You want to talk about "worthy of the name" then let's start by asking ourselves if a Tempest option package is worthy of being named after the single most successful GT racer of all time.

C: Explain to me how the 320hp, 340lb ft of torque LS1 Camaros were "Civic-like".

D: I like the alphabet

E: Mustangs aren't sports cars. Never have been. Never will be. They're coupes. They're potent coupes. They're very good selling coupes. But they're far from being sports cars.

F: Corvette has no torque down low? What do you drive? A 455 Stage 2 Buick? Sorry, but 375lb-ft at 4700rpm is some good torque at a nice low rpm to me. Particularly for a small block.

Now, I like muscle cars a lot. Some of my favorites are a little obtuse (I have a weird AMC fetish, with Mother Mopar as a close second). But you've really got your head in the ground with this one, pal.

[RedLightning]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

What do you guys think of the muscles cars from back in the day that are still around (Camaro, Corvette, Mustang...) do you think they are at all what they used to be? What about the GTO that Pontiac is bringing back? Is it worthy of the name of the car that started the muscle car era?
Also what about the Dodge Viper, 500hp and 505lbs/ft torque, the most muscle-car like car around in my oppinion.
I think that of all the muscle cars that used to be great, the only one worth buying anymore is the corvette. now i'm not saying it is still a muscle car, it used to be one but now it's more like a modern sports car without all of the low-end torque of real muscle cars. The camarro that chevy had around for a little while recently was just, in my oppinion, a civic-like small car without any power whatsoever. And the Mustang, used to be pretty good, now a sad excuse for a sports car.
Hope to hear your oppinions.

first i must say that vettes and vipers are NOT muscle cars, they are sports cars! mustang is not a sports car it is a pony car, same with the comaro and firebird, yes the new GTO is worthy of its name, but just barley. GTO was a Ferrari name now its a pontiac name, ah poor Ferrari, getting thier names stolen by pontiac and getting beat by ford. oh the tragedy, ya whatever.

[Filthy Sanchez]

Originally Posted by beef_bourito

What do you guys think of the muscles cars from back in the day that are still around (Camaro, Corvette, Mustang...) do you think they are at all what they used to be? What about the GTO that Pontiac is bringing back? Is it worthy of the name of the car that started the muscle car era?
Also what about the Dodge Viper, 500hp and 505lbs/ft torque, the most muscle-car like car around in my oppinion.
I think that of all the muscle cars that used to be great, the only one worth buying anymore is the corvette. now i'm not saying it is still a muscle car, it used to be one but now it's more like a modern sports car without all of the low-end torque of real muscle cars. The camarro that chevy had around for a little while recently was just, in my oppinion, a civic-like small car without any power whatsoever. And the Mustang, used to be pretty good, now a sad excuse for a sports car.
Hope to hear your oppinions.

I have to agree with the other posters here the mustang is not a sports car rather a pony or muscle car affordable and in my opinion one of the best for the money today, especially the 5.0s of the last 10-15years as well as the new ones. The Vette and Viper are easily great sports cars. The vette not having low end torque!!?? Don't know where you got that idea. The GTO I think is great finally GM did something right for a change (it almost makes up for uglifying chevy trucks, killing the camaro, killing the firebird, and ressurecting name plates like nova, malibu, monte carlo, and impala as FWD honda wannabes. Come to think of it no it doesn't) An AMC fetish, hell you the man I love AMCs, mopars, alterna-GMs (non chevy) and mercuries. Not that I don't like Ford and Chevy it's just I love all amrican makes it's just not as often you come across something like a quality buick or olds (without a chevy engine no less) like you do a ford or chevy. I love old muscle cars just don't like 60's tech when it comes to rolling stock, suspension, steering, etc.

[911S_TARGA_RSR]

The 'Vette is the "muscle car" of today.

[RedLightning]

Originally Posted by 911S_TARGA_RSR

The 'Vette is the "muscle car" of today.

how? i dont think it is b/c its first off a sports car and second only seats 2 among other things.

[Dave ESPI]

Define "Sportscar"

Define "Musclecar"


There is a very thin line between the 2.

Long live Ferrari GTO !


IMO: Muscle car = car that was not really designed to be overly powerfull, but gave the buyer a lot of bang for the buck and yet is still pratical.

Sports car = 2 seats and not even room for a bag of golf clubs or a Lawn chair and a case of beer.

[JLad10687]

Pontiac has ruined the name GTO by putting out semi fast sedan that looks no more special then a grand am and slapping GTO on it. Where are the trademark lights? the trademark speed?...its a disgrace

[65Ponchoboy]

the new GTO's suck. pontiac needs to dump the whole body and engine and start from scratch. pontiac needs to pick it up and start making their own V-8's again i mean geez the last real poncho V-8's rolled off the line in the late 70's and they mostly have been chevy engines since then. also they need to get that pontiac creativity back that they had in the 60's. its sad and degrading to the GTO name

[Merlin582]

Hi all. I'm just an old retired foggie sitting around the computer and ran across this site and love it. I love all cars, but I like the old ones better. Anyway, muscle cars to us in the 1940s and 50s were big mostly 4 door cars with V8 engines. To me the last of the muscle cars was 1959 Cadillac. We didn't have good definitions of what was what back then like we do now either. Old habits are hard to break.

[-The Stig-]

Originally Posted by Layla's Keeper

A: Read up a little on your muscle car history. The horsepower war in detroit started with Chrysler in 1955 when they introduced the 300 with its Hemi. Then you started seeing Paxton blown T-birds, fuelie 283's, and so forth.

B: GTO is a Ferrari name first and foremost. To the point where Pontiac was paying royalties to the Scuderia to keep their asses out of the fire. You want to talk about "worthy of the name" then let's start by asking ourselves if a Tempest option package is worthy of being named after the single most successful GT racer of all time.

C: Explain to me how the 320hp, 340lb ft of torque LS1 Camaros were "Civic-like".

D: I like the alphabet

E: Mustangs aren't sports cars. Never have been. Never will be. They're coupes. They're potent coupes. They're very good selling coupes. But they're far from being sports cars.

F: Corvette has no torque down low? What do you drive? A 455 Stage 2 Buick? Sorry, but 375lb-ft at 4700rpm is some good torque at a nice low rpm to me. Particularly for a small block.

Now, I like muscle cars a lot. Some of my favorites are a little obtuse (I have a weird AMC fetish, with Mother Mopar as a close second). But you've really got your head in the ground with this one, pal.

[Layla's Keeper]

Okay, Poncho Boy, while the 421SD remains one of my all time favorite drag racing engines, are you willing to tell me that you'd pay another $4000 on a GTO so that it had a Pontiac specific engine? Plus increased parts costs due to parts rarity?

Going further, how about another $15,000 to pay off development costs of a brand new, GTO-specific chassis platform with its own radically different body? And would you want to pay the insane dealer mark-ups (probably another $10,000) for this radically different car.

The GTO was about acceleration and style on a budget. Something tells me a $50,000+ sport coupe is a bit outside of the GTO's "budget friendly" persona.

The Monaro is competition proven, and quite a looker. The LS1 is a stout engine, and its bigger brother the LS6 is waiting in the wings (Judge, anyone?). The current GTO is a place-holder, an interim car created to gauge public reaction and ready the Aussie Holden plant to produce the next generation of more radically designed America-friendly GTO's in 2006-07.

And, by the way J Lad, what's the GTO traditional light layout? In 1964 they were horizontal quads. In 1965-1967, they were stacked quads. 1968-69 were hidden headlight years, and 1970 through 1972 were horizontal quad headlights. I don't see a tradition there.

However, as far as trademark speed, 0-60 in 5.9seconds and quarter-miles in 13.8seconds trounce about 80% of the car's competitors, such as the Infiniti G35, BMW 330ci, Mazda RX8 (ties RX-8 to 60), and Chrysler Crossfire. Plus .81g's on the skidpad and 63.4mph through the slalom beats out every GTO before it.

Gee, speed, inexpensive, big V8, RWD, looks like just another Pontiac, it's 1964 all over again. Back when GTO was just an option package on the humble little Tempest coupe.

[-The Stig-]

Seriously... with rumors of the Camaro/Firebird coming back in the next few years. The C6 just round the corner, GTO's and monstrous Vipers.

Hell even the new Bonneville's have V8s... FWD but still pretty potent.

It's a very healthy revival of the 'muscle car' era.

The imports are still putting out healthy cars themselves. It's all good... makes for fun stop light encounters.

[JLad10687]

Originally Posted by Layla's Keeper

Okay, Poncho Boy, while the 421SD remains one of my all time favorite drag racing engines, are you willing to tell me that you'd pay another $4000 on a GTO so that it had a Pontiac specific engine? Plus increased parts costs due to parts rarity?

Going further, how about another $15,000 to pay off development costs of a brand new, GTO-specific chassis platform with its own radically different body? And would you want to pay the insane dealer mark-ups (probably another $10,000) for this radically different car.

The GTO was about acceleration and style on a budget. Something tells me a $50,000+ sport coupe is a bit outside of the GTO's "budget friendly" persona.

The Monaro is competition proven, and quite a looker. The LS1 is a stout engine, and its bigger brother the LS6 is waiting in the wings (Judge, anyone?). The current GTO is a place-holder, an interim car created to gauge public reaction and ready the Aussie Holden plant to produce the next generation of more radically designed America-friendly GTO's in 2006-07.

And, by the way J Lad, what's the GTO traditional light layout? In 1964 they were horizontal quads. In 1965-1967, they were stacked quads. 1968-69 were hidden headlight years, and 1970 through 1972 were horizontal quad headlights. I don't see a tradition there.

However, as far as trademark speed, 0-60 in 5.9seconds and quarter-miles in 13.8seconds trounce about 80% of the car's competitors, such as the Infiniti G35, BMW 330ci, Mazda RX8 (ties RX-8 to 60), and Chrysler Crossfire. Plus .81g's on the skidpad and 63.4mph through the slalom beats out every GTO before it.

Gee, speed, inexpensive, big V8, RWD, looks like just another Pontiac, it's 1964 all over again. Back when GTO was just an option package on the humble little Tempest coupe.

I was watching an episode of car and driver where they actually tested the GTO and all that shit about 13.8s and what not wasnt true. It came out little better then any other sedan driving on the road.

[chevydrummer76]

Originally Posted by JLad10687

I was watching an episode of car and driver where they actually tested the GTO and all that shit about 13.8s and what not wasnt true. It came out little better then any other sedan driving on the road.

maybe they didnt know how to drive it or maybe they were 10,000ft up?????