Machining Discussion-Lathes, Mills, CNC.

[gionc]

Andy, he's all your opcorn:

@jbain: chuck crap over other member's thought isn't the style of this forum.

I own one of those 60Kg. lathes branded Einhell (the same as some UK branded lathe) and made (I guess) in china and I haven't the impression of a great tool, despite the weight LOL. It's also true that I havent rebuilt like suggested on minimill...., too lazy to do it, but may be now, after a couple years.. I'll play a bit with my lathe's screws

[klutz_100]

Originally Posted by jbain

Don't know where you got that MISS-INFORMATION from, seems that you have NEVER personally taken a good look at what is being sold there.

So you have bought a Sherline, an aluminium piece of over-priced, undersized, over-rated, super-hyped up junk and it's still a TOY.

If you had a decent look at a Mini-Mill from Harbour Frite, you would find that it is at least made from CAST IRON, has a far greater work envelope, tooling is available quite readily and the price is a fraction of what you paid for that TOY.
So, anybody who is interested in buying a mill or a lathe for modelling, don't be put off by persons saying that the Chinese stuff is CRAP, go and have a look for yourself and you can then decide if you want a Mini-mill or a toy sherline/taig, unimat or whatever.

The choice is yours.

The reason that I state this, is because I bought a Unimat 3 about twenty year ago, this is what Sherline tried to beat, by bringing out a machine that was CHEAPER to make than a Uni 3, how, by making it from aluminium, where-as the Uni 3 is at least cast iron. I struggled along with this combination machine for years and eventually had to buy a bigger stand alone lathe. Then, another mill was in order, had a good look around and came across these Chinese Mini-mills, value for dollar they could not be beaten and I've been happy with these larger machines for years now.

Bloody hell! That was a bit strongly put don't you think?!?!

And BTW it's "misinformation" NOT Miss-Information - unless you had a some sort of beauty pageant in mind....

[jbain]

Originally Posted by klutz_100

Bloody hell! That was a bit strongly put don't you think?!?!

WHY?????

He stated his opinion,

" and it almost goes without saying that if it comes from Harbour Fright, it is the wrong machine. Everything I have ever heard regarding their machine tools is to avoid them like the plague- they are worth no consideration at all".

I just stated my opinion.

Aren't you allowed to state your opinion, if it clashes with someone elses?

What is this forum meant to be used for then?

I did not personally insult him, so what' all this about then?

@jbain: chuck crap over other member's thought isn't the style of this forum.


I just stated what my experiances have been with smaller machinery and then with larger machines.

[klutz_100]

Originally Posted by jbain

WHY?????

How about all the CAPITAL letters which, IIRC means SHOUTING in "internet speak"?

Then there were the first 2 sentences of your post which (to me) as read as being pretty personal in nature.

Of course you are supposed to express opinions - especially when they differ from someone else's - that's how we all benefit from forums.

IMHO what you wrote didn't seem like an opinion but more like a criticism of MPWR for him having his opinion. But maybe that's just my interpretation.

Internet communication is a fragile thing and misunderstandings are easy and frequent which is why it's always a good idea to think about what and how you are writing - especially when directed at someone who has a 5-star record on AF of providing abundant, well informed and reliable advice on subjects he knows quite a lot about.

My

PS I think Harbor Fright is a GREAT way to call Harbor Freight - almost as good as Image Hovel

[cyberkid]

@Jbain This is what I took of your post. Meaning that underneath all the words this is the message that I thought you were trying to send.

Originally Posted by jbain

Here I basically call you stupid and lazy.

Here I just want to make fun of your gear.

Here I want to say "Ooooh look at me I'm the best!!" and dis your gear again.
Then I state my point that Chinese stuff may be good and then dis your gear once again.

The choice is yours.

Now I brag about how eperienced I am with this gear and why everyone should listen to me.

MPWR is a well respected AF member and may or may not know what he is talking about, but in no means does he deserve your post.

[mike@af]

Ok, this is going to get out of control. Keep it civilized or I will start moderating. There's a whole respect issue we have here on the forum, that is not being seen.

Jbain, you weren't just expressing your opinion on why the Chinese lathe was better, but you went out of your way to disparage the Sherline lathe. I could just as easily, destroy what you said about the Chinese lathes the way you attempted to blur the image of the Sherline. That is, if I wanted to turn this into some sort of competition thread, but that is NOT what this is about.

So further on, keep it as an information thread. Not a thread about who's lathe is better. If your lathe is better, please don't brag about it, just state why you feel it is better, and post the numbers that prove it is better (tolerance, run-out, etc).

Thanks.

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by jbain

Don't know where you got that MISS-INFORMATION from, seems that you have NEVER personally taken a good look at what is being sold there.

Wow. You seem pretty angry about this.

Welcome to AF. You are of course absolutely welcome to express nearly any opinion you like here, be it contrary or complementary to others expressed here. But I wonder if you mean to come across with quite so much agression? I believe the point that Klutz_100 and Gionc were making was that the tone of conversation in this forum tends to keep to friendly conversational- and that's maybe not exactly how you're coming across.


I'm fairly well aquainted with Harbour Freight. My local one is just a few miles down the road, and I'm in there pretty regularly- it's about the only close place I can buy anything related to machining retail. I've got a drawer full of carbide tipped lathe cutting tools and the like from there, as well as a bench grinder, band saw, and other odds and ends. My god is that band saw a sorry piece of sh!t quality wise, but it does the job and until it kills me I've saved at least $100.

I learned machining on full size industrial machines- non CNC Bridgeport mills and South Bend lathes. From working on them I certainly expect any machine tool I use to be able to repreatably cut to 0.0001" out of the box with any reasonable measure of competence from the operator.

I've never been impressed with any of the machine tools I've seen at Harbour Freight. When by turning a handwheel I can feel slop (not backlash!) in the leadscrew, or play in the cross slide sadle, it's easy for me to tell that this is not a machine I want to use. Of course, this is just my opinion from my observations.

I've certainly heard that Chinese made tooling can be rebuilt by a competent and patient machinist into useful gear. If saving money and rebuilding to your own standards are your thing, more power to you. There's a great tradition amongst machinists of improving one's tools. But personally when I've bought tools, I've bought them for projects, not to be projects. I believe you're the first person I've heard say that they're really satisfied with a tool purchased from Harbour Freight.

Are Sherline tools toys? A Sherline mill compares to a Bridgeport mill in exactly the way an Iwata Revolution compares to a top end automotive spray gun. They're simply the finest tools availible for their intended tasks. Are they expensive? No doubt. Are they small? Certainly- and if you work on larger projects, than obviously you need bigger tooling. But the fact that Toyota doesn't use Iwata airbrushes in their factories to paint full size cars does not make them toys, does it?

If you take a look at or try out Sherline gear, you may find it has less aluminum than you think. I frequently use magnetic tool bases with my setup.

[Cold_Fire]

I didn't think that taking this thread to the first page would start this discussion.

Anyone could give me some advice about I asked in the previous page?

Thanks.

[Scale-Master]

jbain,
With the passion and experience you must have according to your posts, maybe you could show us some of the wonderful high-tolerance work you've been able to produce with what many of us think are sub-standard machines? If they can do what you say, I'm sure there are a lot of people here who would like to know how you were able to make them work to your benefit. Did you get a "good" one where all the ones I've seen were poorly built examples with lot's of slop? These are viable logical questions.

I have played with some of the Chinese machines, and they will not do what I need of them, but the Sherline is a very economical alternative in my opinion. Yes, they may cost more at the time of purchase than a Harbor Freight import, but all said and done, to fully outfit the two side by side, you will end up saving money with the Sherline. At least it worked out that way for me.
Plus I'll bet the Sherline will be running twenty years down the road and the HF stuff won't be alive after five to seven years, let alone in tolerance. And Sherline is there with support, (I'll bet in twenty years still too), not something I've been able to get from my local HF store. "You bought it, deal with it" is their attitude.
A picture is worth a thousand words. And I'd be glad to show what I've been able to do with what you call a toy, Sherline set-up, (as if I haven't shown a bunch already)...

No, I do not work for Sherline, but I am a very happy owner of Sherline products. I did my homework before purchasing, and am being rewarded for it with a quality product.

And keep this civil please. This should be a discussion for enlightening others who are looking to get into machining, especially at an economic level. Moderate away if needed Mike... - Mark

[mike@af]

Originally Posted by Cold_Fire

Hi guys, I though it would be better to bump this thread than starting a new one.

Some friend is selling his lathe, and I'm thinking about getting it. It's this one:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/minilor/index.html

It would be the german version, the Robbe Romat Vario 300. It has some accesories and bits, everything in perfect condition.

I would like to know if anyone knows this lathe or has had some experience with it. Is it an old lathe? I mean, would I have problems trying to get the mill or any other accesories / spare parts for it? Do you think it's a good option for 300 euro? (around 400 USD).

Is there any manufacturer selling this model of lathe nowadays? If anyone knows some webpage to get accesories please let me know.

Thanks.

I've never used that lathe, but it looks similar to a Clarke or a Prazi model. Maybe Steve (Hiroboy) can post up his experience with Clarke. He uses a Clarke lathe and a Clarke mill, but of a different model, but overall the consensus would be similar on whether or not it is quality.

I'm willing to bet it wont have the accuracy of the Sherline lathes, but it will probably do a fair job. Gio uses a version of a Sieg (chinese) lathe and he turns out some pretty nice work, I do know that he has run into precision problems for super tiny parts though. (Correct me if I'm wrong Gio.)

If you're have tight tolerances and accuracy, it wont do the job most likely. But if you're after ornamentation and fair tolerances it should work.

This is almost an extension of the debate we're having now Sieg vs. Sherline.

Hope that helps.

[gionc]

Yep Mike, correct, but my stuff is absolutely equal to Steve's Clarke, simply I guess they're the same product re-branded. Also some problems was fixed over the time so I guess 50-70% was lack of skills at begin

[cinqster]

I've got the Clarke too and I'm happy with it - it does everything I want it to do, to a good standard. I do have to be prepared to make adjustments now and then. A lot of the previously mentioned 'slop' can be tuned out with patient adjustment - all the examples that I tried in-store were woefully out of adjustment, but it's nothing that a day's tear down won't rectify. Some may say this is not acceptable in a few hundred dollar machine but to me it's all part of the lathe learning curve and is an enjoyable process to boot, and after two years mine performs far better than when I took it out the box.

I read up on these machines before I purchased. I remember on one particular site a guy was using his to machine rifle barrels - if it's capable of that then it's fine by me!

[PlutoniumDan]

Hi my name is Dan, I am new to this forum and very impressed with what a lot of guys and gals have done,

on an alternative to mill and lathe setups I thought a Roland Modela MDX-15/20 desktop subtractive rapid prototyping machine(small cnc mill) would be an interesting choice, you have to give it 3D data to work so you will need a solid modeling program but you can do some pretty neat stuff with it, there are limitations as with other machining setups but getting around them is part of the ingenuity, hopefully in the future I will get a small lathe to compliment this machine or a fourth axis

here are a couple of pictures of the machine and things I have made with it

Machinable blue wax
Polyurathane resin
Start of my jetpack model
silocone RTV mold
MDX-20 in its box

Managed to get the pictures back, suppose I must read up on how to post pics properly

[klutz_100]

Wow Dan!

Welcome to AF
Do you take orders? j/k

[PlutoniumDan]

Reply to Klutz 100 I will be taking orders

Asking any Mods, can this thread be posted into the machining forum

Thanks Freakray