97 LeSabre wouldn't start during/after blizzard

[scottsdale1955]

Hello!

I'm relatively new to the forum (was registered a few years back but under an old email address that I can't even recall ) Anyways, I apologize for the somewhat premature questions for troubleshooting but here's the issue..

I came out after work yesterday night during a snow storm and my car wouldn't start. (High winds, -20's, heavy snowfall) But cold weather is the norm for this area.. just not the high winds. When I first went to start the car, it acted like the battery was dead (wouldn't even crank, but lights came up & voltage was fine.) So I assumed it might just need a jump..went to ask if any co-workers had jumper cables & no one did . So went back out to try it again, and started to turn over just fine, but wouldn't start. I was pretty low on gas (less than 1/4 of a tank), so figured maybe there was condensation or water in the line, as I do have a fuel leak- the sending unit is rusting around the top, but gauge/pump seem to still be alright..although I'm getting ready to replace anyways for the sake of the leak. After this, I went to get a bottle of the Heet gas additive and poured it in. (Probably shouldn't have added the full bottle?.. but I figured I'd get gas after getting it started.)

So that's where I'm at.. I had the car towed home from work & have yet to add gas (which is why I was sorry for the premature troubleshooting.) I thought maybe the fuel pump suddenly quit..but I can hear it come on/prime when I go to start the car (?) I'll have to get a fuel pressure gauge. But it just seems strange with the initial issue when going to start the car, like it would be an electrical problem? But both myself and the AAA guy tried starting with a jumper pack/battery charger and had no luck.

Car has relatively low miles (66k) It was owned by an elderly couple... sat a lot I'd assume, hence the rusting sending unit.

I'll post back if there is some miraculous chance the gas does the trick. Thanks in advance for the replies!

Best, Mark

[imidazol97]

Originally Posted by scottsdale1955

(wouldn't even crank, but lights came up & voltage was fine.)

again, and started to turn over just fine, but wouldn't start.


I had the car towed home from work

Car has relatively low miles (66k)

Since it wouldn't crank over at first, check all connections at the battery, between the two positive cables especially. The corrosion on the spacer between the two postives might be preventing connection.

Did you mean temperatures were 20 deg below zero when you said -20s?

But first, since it's at home, pull a plug wire and lay it on the engine metal while someone cranks for you and see if you have spark!

Then check the battery voltage while cranking to see if it drops below 10 or so which is the minimum needed for the computer systems to work.

Then use that fuel pressure gauge you borrow from Autozone or elsewhere to check pressure.

You need fuel, spark, and air for it to run. The fuel may need to have higher pressure at crank so the Fuel Pressure Regulator might be a factor, but that would show in the pressure test.

The fact that it wouldn't even engage the starter at first makes me suspect the cables at the battery or a defective battery. Then after some attempts, the battery or corrosion warmed a little and changed and you got a connection for cranking power to the starter.

Since you are in a cold wet climate, the ground buss under the door sill edge/carpet might be a factor. I do not recall people saying that caused starting problems. You might try pounding that area with your heel to see if there is corrosion on the buss preventing ignition from working.

Good luck.

[aleekat]

Ditto. Wouldn't crank, suspect cables. Less than a 1/4 of gas, fuel line frozen?
FYI: Fuel pumps use the fuel as a lubricate also. You run car out of gas, run the risk of damaging the fuel pump. And winter time is the worst time to have low fuel. Try to keep it above half a tank.

[scottsdale1955]

Thank you for the quick replies!

Today I checked the battery cables, the positive one was a bit loose (possibly from the tow though?) I cleaned the terminals & reattached the cables. I also added 5 gal. of gas, & was able to borrow a fuel pressure gauge. The reading came up as 45 psi.. which is normal, according to the Haynes repair manual that is. I also recharged the battery for a good 40 minutes, as it was pretty well drained. Turns over with no problem now, but still won't start.. so I'm guessing it might be the fuel pump? Although I can still hear it prime, and the fuel pressure is average. I saw when searching yesterday, before posting, that sometimes the crankshaft sensor could be the cause of a no-start.. but would it quit at random?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it!

Mark

Forgot to mention.. I didn't have another person around today to help with checking for a spark, so I'll follow up on the results of that. Also, imidazol97, sorry- Yes I did mean 20 below 0 degrees when I said that.

[HotZ28]

The reading came up as 45 psi.. which is normal, according to the Haynes repair manual that is.

If this is correct, the fuel pump is not the problem.

[scottsdale1955]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If this is correct, the fuel pump is not the problem.

Thanks for the reply.. hmm, so maybe I should consider the crankshaft sensor I'll still check the plugs tomorrow, although I would think there would be a warning sign with those.

[HotZ28]

Check for spark before changing parts.

[Tech II]

Ditto on checking for spark.....f/p is ok.....check for injector pulse.....

Also try disconnecting the MAF sensor.....

Have you checked for codes?

[scottsdale1955]

Sorry for the delay, haven't gotten a chance to work on it until today. So I got a hand with checking for spark, and is indeed getting it..although the plug I pulled out had a lot of carbon buildup on it. Maybe they got a bit wet (with gas) from trying to start it over & over again So I might try cleaning them all before replacing. I haven't tried starting with the MAF sensor disconnected- thanks for the tip! How do I go about checking the injector pulse? Thanks!


Also, haven't checked for codes yet either. I do have a scan tool so I'll give that a shot as well.

[scottsdale1955]

Hit a small roadblock for the moment..
Kind of embarrassing, but one of the plugs (in the back, of course) broke in half when I was taking it out..so I'm working on getting it out. The last two plugs I removed were pretty wet with gas, so maybe this is worth my efforts.

[HotZ28]

If the plugs are wet with gas (NOT COOLANT), then obviously the injectors are pulsing. As suggested, disconnect the MAF and see what happens. BTW, has the UIM ever been changed? Have you been low on coolant recently?

[scottsdale1955]

Originally Posted by HotZ28

If the plugs are wet with gas (NOT COOLANT), then obviously the injectors are pulsing. As suggested, disconnect the MAF and see what happens. BTW, has the UIM ever been changed? Have you been low on coolant recently?

Makes sense,.. stupid question on my part! Didn't get the broken plug out before it got dark so I haven't gotten a chance to restart it (w/o the MAF sensor connected.) And now that you mention it, yes the coolant has been low lately. Although, I did just have a leak from a loose hose clamp so I might just need to have added a bit more antifreeze. The plugs definitely smell like gas, not coolant. But I have been thinking about having to replace the UIM. I highly doubt it was replaced, as I'm the second owner, and it had 44k on it when I bought it two years ago.


(Note to self- I need a raise!)

[imidazol97]

[quote=scottsdale1955;6957355] UIM. I highly doubt it was replaced, as I'm the second owner, and it had 44k on it when I bought it two years ago.
QUOTE]

Check for the circles on the upper intake, one of them giving the year of manufacturer. If there are no circles or the date is later than 96 or 97, it has been replaced.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k1...earstamp-1.jpg

If you are leaking coolant into the upper intake, that gets aspirated with the incoming air. The plugs would be nice and white from the steam blasting as the coolant burns off in the cylinder. Have you had any stumbling from the engine or any missing when first starting it, e.g.?

If it's a lower intake gasket between it and the heads, the coolant may seep into the cylinder while the engine is off and hydrolock it.

To me, your starting problem lies elsewhere. But I'd put the UIM/lower gasket work onto my bucket list, along with replacing the fuel pump and sender, since the tank must be lowered to do that. Been there with the leaking metal tube from the sender to the fuel filter. Rusted even though I sprayed off the car underneath 3-4 times a winter.

If it is the original UIM, I'd personally recommend the APN upper with metal sleeve, ineedparts.com. For lower gaskets, use GM metal protected gaskets for the lower intake to head gaskets.

[Tech II]

Did you check for spark on all 6 cylinders? Use a noid light to check for injector pulse...

Since you have the plugs out(I would replace them with OEM), disable fuel and spark.......then pressurize the cooling system overnight with a pressure tester......then crank vehicle next day with plugs out and see if any coolant comes out of the holes.....

[scottsdale1955]

Thanks for all the help guys!

I wish I had read the last post prior to replacing the plugs, but anyways..this is where I'm at. Replaced the plugs/wires this morning. I didn't test for spark on all 6 plugs, which was stupid.. so I should do that. However, I'm getting a bad suspicion that the UIM is part of the culprit. When pulling the plugs out, I did notice some coolant around the UIM... so apparently it did start leaking. There was regular dirt/grime before, just from age, but this is the first I've seen the coolant. Also, when first attempting to start it this morning after finishing with the plugs/wires, I saw a small, white cloud of smoke come up from the engine. (Couldn't tell where from exactly, as the hood was still up). I'm hoping the engine hasn't truly become hydrolocked. I can try the pressure test for the coolant still. Being an outdoor project, this is definitely taking longer than need be. I do have a garage, but it's not insulated yet...kinda of useless, right?