01 Town and Country does not want to start when cold, acts like its flooded, OK warm?

[chubbygoatboy]

I am working on a 2001 T&C, 3.3 liter. 100k on it. It is hard to start when cold, or just after cooling down after driving. If you hold the throttle to the floor, and treat it like it was flooded, you are able to get it started. After it warms for a few minutes, you can drive it. If you try to accelerate quickly, it stumbles on its nose, after good and warm, it accelerates OK.

I replaced plugs, the old ones were original, and shot. Cleaned the throttlebody, no difference. Fuel pressure is 60 psi. I pulled a plug wire and inserted a extra spark plug in it , grounded and started it. The spark looks weak to me. Also, no check engine code. I would have thought a misfire should have shown up, but it did not. When I changed the plugs, they were all 6 wet with gas. Does this sound like a coil pak going bad?????? Nobody stocks it around here, so I am thinking this is not a common failure?? ANY IDEAS?? THANKS

[tempfixit]

Do you have any codes?

Orange /yellow spark= weak
blue spark= strong

Its hard to believe that all 3 coils are bad at the same time.
Have you checked the ground for the coil pack?

[chubbygoatboy]

There were three codes, all were connected to a massive hose leak near the leak detection pump, I replaced the hoses and reset the light. Now, even though it still runs like crap,. there are no codes... The spark was a faint yellow,. and there is only 1 coil pak with all 6 wires going to it????

[tempfixit]

If you remember the codes that were present would you post them, possibly there is some thing you missed (no disrespect meant).

According to the free online service manual I looked at says:
{QUOTE} Faulty or fouled spark plugs along with a faulty ignitiion control system due to loose connections, bad grounds, high resistance in the circuit, or opens in the circuit can cause the following symptons>
One of them is EXTENDED CRANK TIME WHEN ENGINE IS COLD

Have you checked the spark plug wires for resistance with a meter, if so were they all about the same resistance? Any corrision visible on the spark plug wires?

There has to be a way to test the coil, of which I do not know, hopefully someone can jump in explain testing procedure for coil, crankshaft and camshaft sensors.

It is hard to believe that none of the parts stores stock the coil, evidentaly they are not a trouble some item.

I would do more testing of compotents rather than just throwing parts at it.

There is another site for these vans: http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/
just register its free. Just like this site lots of good people willing to help.

[RIP]

Originally Posted by chubbygoatboy

and there is only 1 coil pak with all 6 wires going to it????

1 coil pack with 3 coils within, each firing 2 cylinders. The PCM fires the pack. Heat the coil up with a hair dryer for a good 10 minutes. Then try starting. If that wakes it up, replace it. Not the case? Try heating other components. How's the battery? Should see > 9vdc across the posts when cranking on the coldest morning. Should see 18.5k ohms to 26.7K ohms resistance on the plug wires depending on length. Was the pump warm when checked? If yes, might check it cold.

tempfixit Where's this free online service manual?



*

[tempfixit]

ONLINE SERVICE MANUALS

http://www.oplin.org/databases/proxy...%2fframerq.asp

enter 123456789 for library card #, submit library it shows, scroll down to AUTO REPAIR REFERENCE CENTER and pick your year and make.

[RIP]

Originally Posted by tempfixit

ONLINE SERVICE MANUALS

http://www.oplin.org/databases/proxy...%2fframerq.asp

enter 123456789 for library card #, submit library it shows, scroll down to AUTO REPAIR REFERENCE CENTER and pick your year and make.

Tempfixit, you are a King! You deserve a 2 week trip to the destination of your choice plus a brand new Town & Country. Um...will a thanks work? I've been looking for accessable manuals on these wonder wagons since I first logged on 4 years ago. They've got them for other manufacturers on other forums but, not for Chrysler minivans. You fixed that. Too bad we don't have a moderator. This should be a big sticky at the top of the forum.

[chubbygoatboy]

Thanks guys! It sure appeared to be the coil, so I replaced it. Thought it was fixed, not so.... It cranks over just fine, but will not fire, unless you push the gas pedal to the floor. Then it eventually starts like it was flooded. What I have noticed is that the transmission could have something to do with it. If I turn the key on, put it in neutral then start, it seems to be OK. Also, it now appears that when you tromp it as you are going down the road, say at 50mph or so, the tach jumps up from 2k to 4k, making me think the engine is running fine, but the car still stumbles on its nose, so I am wondering if the transmission is somehow affecting it??? Don't know, but sure seems suspicious??

[N8SBlaze]

Originally Posted by chubbygoatboy

Thanks guys! It sure appeared to be the coil, so I replaced it. Thought it was fixed, not so.... It cranks over just fine, but will not fire, unless you push the gas pedal to the floor. Then it eventually starts like it was flooded. What I have noticed is that the transmission could have something to do with it. If I turn the key on, put it in neutral then start, it seems to be OK. Also, it now appears that when you tromp it as you are going down the road, say at 50mph or so, the tach jumps up from 2k to 4k, making me think the engine is running fine, but the car still stumbles on its nose, so I am wondering if the transmission is somehow affecting it??? Don't know, but sure seems suspicious??

This sounds just like the problem that my buddiy was having on his Ford Explorer. I searched the Exploerer forum and found that this is usually caused by a dirty or bad Idle Air Control (IAC). Apparently during a cold start up the throttle plate remains closed and the IAC opens to allow a smaller amount of air to enter for a richer fuel air mixture. The IAC was not opening, which choked the engine and required him to have to push half way down on the gas pedal to start the engine. This forced the throttled plate to open and allow a fuel/air mixture. He had to keep his foot on the pedal until the engine warmed up and then it ran fine. After cleaning the IAC the problem went away. I used a throttled body cleaner to get all the crud out of it.

If you go to that online service manual that was posted above by tempfixit you can find a picture of the IAC and an R&R procedure. First find your vehilce type , year and engine. Go under Driveability and Emmissions Control, then under Electronic Engine control, and then Idle Air Control.

This is just an idea, it does not cost much, hope it is helpful.
Nate

[jpb53]

IAC controls the idle speed of the engine. Computer controls the amount of fuel; by changing pulse width of injectors (how long injectors are open) Key on TPS, MAP and Coolant sensors are the main inputs for starting. Check the sensor readings at key on with cold engine.

[chubbygoatboy]

WOW!! HERE IS THE ANSWER!!! The upstream O2 sensor went bad!! It was basically telling the computer that E85 was being used, in fact, it has never been in this vehicle!! ( THERE WERE NO CODES STORED!! ) Disconnect the battery to clear the memory, install the new O2 sensor, OEM preferred, reconnect battery. IT RUNS LIKE A NEW CAR AGAIN!! Apparently this is starting to happen more frequently on others. Hope this helps somenone else!!!!!!!

[RIP]

Great news! What lead you to the O2 sensor?

[chad millett]

What is E85? The engine light should have been on I would think. Also, dont you have to have the codes cleared on an 2001 with a scanner. Disconnecting the battery shouldnt clear them. There just wasnt any there huh?

[chubbygoatboy]

RIP,
A good friend that has a shop, just ran into the exact same issue. He proved it to me with his scanner. It showed that the PCM thought it was running on E85. He frequently uses a website called Direct Hit. I am checking into it. I think there is a monthly fee, of course, but might be well worth it!!

Chad,
(E85 is 85% ethanol) compared to the typical 10 or 15% ethanol-gas mixture

[kurt1962]

Wow you have no idea how helpful this post has been. I maintain a fleet of dodge grand caravans for a clinic and had this exact same issue. After replacing plugs, wires, coil, injectors I ran across this post, went ahead and replaced the upstream O2 sensor, and bam, problem gone! Thanks for posting, this helps all of us!