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Old 09-10-2017, 02:51 PM   #1
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a new problem instrument cluster

The van will not start period, the starter motor won't turn over ether. Everything else works fine. Now I have found that if I ground the light green wire that comes from the low side of the starter relay to some anti start thing in the cluster. If I ground that wire. The starter motor will turn over. But I think there is no power getting to the ignition coil .The wiring diagram book that I have reports that the ignition coil is supposed to be on the right side of the engine, between the engine and the battery. I pulled the ignition switch and tested with a VOM And I found 12vdc on the primary (hot line from the battery). I also found power on the output wires from the switch's also. I need some help on this please.

Steve
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:51 AM   #2
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

I think the book should have a diagram for the starting circuit, including any lockouts that prevent the starter for operating.

I know that there is one lockout in the transmission to make sure it is either in park or neutral, but I don't remember if there are any others.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:52 PM   #3
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

Yes I have an anti-theft security system.
I have the starter turning over now. I bypassed the cluster and got the starter working. There is no spark. I did the spark test by pulling one of the spark plug wires. Also I think I found the fuse in the fuse block in the engine compartment that feeds power to the ignition coil, There is no power there at that fuse. I found a Youtube video as to how to get at the ignition coil/distributor ( the ignition coil/distributor is on the back side of the engine). I have to take off the wiper blades, the cabin air vent cover, air vent filters and so on to get at the ignition coil/distributor. I found the ignition circuit in the wiring diagram book. I am hoping that I can trace back the large red wire that feeds power to the ignition coil through the firewall and make the jump there. Instead of jumping the coil directly to the battery. There is no way to run an extra wire through the firewall, tried. I had to tie into the + power lead for my ham radios into the main bus wire going into the cabin fuse panel. That add-on is not the problem. The van ran for a month with the radios installed

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Originally Posted by tomj76 View Post
I think the book should have a diagram for the starting circuit, including any lockouts that prevent the starter for operating.

I know that there is one lockout in the transmission to make sure it is either in park or neutral, but I don't remember if there are any others.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:15 PM   #4
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

Its a long shot, but you might try hooking up a regular OBD II scanner to see if any unlearned monitor information might give you a clue.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:27 PM   #5
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

I don't have a OBD II scanner nor do I have the funds to tow the van to the dealer or pay a mobile macanic with the scanner to come out. I have 2 options. 1 do the ignition coil bypass. 2 have Big Toe (that's who I got it from) and fix it at there shop for free since the cluster has been acting up since I got it.

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Its a long shot, but you might try hooking up a regular OBD II scanner to see if any unlearned monitor information might give you a clue.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:03 PM   #6
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

Sorry to say, but I don't think your first "option" is an option.... as I don't see it working. The PCM sends the spark signals to the ignition coil pack ... and the PCM depends on a number of things, including a signal from the cam and crank sensors.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:37 PM   #7
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

If the 1st option doesn't work and if Big Toe (were I got the van from) won't or can't fix it. Then I am stuck with making payments on a scrap heap for the next year and a quarter. Basically a scrap heap or a place to store things on wheels.

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Sorry to say, but I don't think your first "option" is an option.... as I don't see it working. The PCM sends the spark signals to the ignition coil pack ... and the PCM depends on a number of things, including a signal from the cam and crank sensors.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:59 PM   #8
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

I have no knowledge of how the anti-theft does its job.

I found this link, which may help:
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2000-ford-windstar-disabling-the-anti-theft-system


If you have an oscilloscope (or you can rig an LED to flash), you can see if the PCM signals are getting to the coil. However, if there is no power to the coil then you need to know why before worrying about signals from the PCM (maybe the PCM controls power to the coil too).

Because I believe unrelated problems rarely occur at the same time, it's likely that you have one problem causing everything that you've been seeing. Given that and the fact that earlier you saw symptoms that the ground was bad, you might have a general problem related to ground.

Has this vehicle been exposed to water (e.g. flooding) or other corrosive environments? If so, then you could have more than a single electrical contact causing the problems.

You may want to connect an ohm meter to the battery negative and check places that should be solid connection to ground. You can (and probably should) do this with the key off. Any resistance above ~1 ohm is a point of suspicion. In particular, check the ground for the PCM, the coil, and the instrument panel. If you find bad connections, then for diagnosis you can use long jumper wires until you isolate the full extent of the problem.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:05 PM   #9
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

I was also about to suggest grabbing a volt-ohmmeter. I would suggest testing the test-points on each fuse under the hood and in the cabin. Test with key-off and key-on ... and just be open to observe "strangeness" anywhere. Using a digital voltmeter, even a small variation of voltage readings can lead to important discoveries.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:27 PM   #10
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

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Old 09-12-2017, 05:53 PM   #11
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

Interesting comments about "aftermarket audio" equipment's effect on the PATS module:
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/...dPdf?id=113354
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:53 PM   #12
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

I don't think flooding is a problem except when a heavy thunder storm roles through, and those are rare. What we get a lot of here is dust storms, smoke and ask from forest fires. Like the Eagle creek complex fire. The fire is down to the interstate 84 in spots and throwing burning embers across the Columbia river and making spot fires in Washington. I-84 is closed from Hood River Or to Troutdale Or, about 75 miles I think. The van sat at Big Toe's lot for about 2 months before I got it. Were the vehicles sit on Big Toe's lot is very dusty and dirty. I am not going to work on it anymore. Big Toe is coming to tow it back to there repair shop on Wed morning. If they can't fix it they are going to put me in some other vehicle since I have only had this van a month. The owner of Big Toe goes to the same church that I do. Out of the last 5 vehicles that I got from Big Toe. This is the 1st to have a lot of problems right out of the gate. Since Big Toe makes a lot of money fixing up vehicles and selling them to people on low or fixed income like me. They reputation to protect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomj76 View Post
I have no knowledge of how the anti-theft does its job.

I found this link, which may help:
https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2000-ford-windstar-disabling-the-anti-theft-system


If you have an oscilloscope (or you can rig an LED to flash), you can see if the PCM signals are getting to the coil. However, if there is no power to the coil then you need to know why before worrying about signals from the PCM (maybe the PCM controls power to the coil too).

Because I believe unrelated problems rarely occur at the same time, it's likely that you have one problem causing everything that you've been seeing. Given that and the fact that earlier you saw symptoms that the ground was bad, you might have a general problem related to ground.

Has this vehicle been exposed to water (e.g. flooding) or other corrosive environments? If so, then you could have more than a single electrical contact causing the problems.

You may want to connect an ohm meter to the battery negative and check places that should be solid connection to ground. You can (and probably should) do this with the key off. Any resistance above ~1 ohm is a point of suspicion. In particular, check the ground for the PCM, the coil, and the instrument panel. If you find bad connections, then for diagnosis you can use long jumper wires until you isolate the full extent of the problem.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:26 PM   #13
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Re: a new problem instrument cluster

I have never had a problem with putting my Amateur Radio, radios in any vehicle. But this is my 1st vehicle that is so computerized. But Windstar ran drove just fine for 3 weeks after I put my 2 way radios and started using them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Ounce View Post
Interesting comments about "aftermarket audio" equipment's effect on the PATS module:
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/TSb/...dPdf?id=113354
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