Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online!
Automotive Forums .com - the leading automotive community online! 
-
Latest | 0 Rplys
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Cars in General
Reply Show Printable Version Show Printable Version | Email this Page Email this Page | Subscription Subscribe to this Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-10-2006, 02:19 PM   #1
SHO411
AF Enthusiast
 
SHO411's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 842
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Hey guys, first I just want to say, I don't want to get flammed for this opinion, if you've got a suggestion or opinion, it's more than welcome, but if you've got some cheesy remark, please keep it to yourself...............Thanks.


DO EXOTIC SPORT CARS DESERVE THE BRAGGING RIGHTS THEY CLAIM?

First let me clear this point, I love cars just as everyone of you, or even more, I like Imports, Domestics, European and what ever car is out there just as long as it meets my criteria, looks and performance, I could care less who made it.
Some cars I like:
R34 & R33 Skyline GT-R, 69 Shelby GT500 Elenor, 06 Corvette ZO6, Mazda RX7 III Gen, 06 BMW M6 & M5, Saleen S7, 05 Stang Cobra SVT, S14 Nissan 240SX, 350Z, 360 Modena, Holden HSV, T-Ram Firebirds, Acura NSX, Bughatti Veyron, 05 Porsche GT2 & GT, 06 Viper, WRX, etc, the list goes on and on into the hundreds...........

Now comes my beef, for a long time european cars have been bragging about how they don't need to use big engine cars to produce horsepower, case in point, the 360 Modena has 390Hp out of a 3.6 liter V8, WOW, and the Porche GT2 has 456Hp out of a 3.6L Flat 6, that's very impressive, we've even made fun of the domestics due to their 'pushrod' technology and cracked at how they make "cheap horsepower" by using very big engines, e.g Chevy small block 5.7L 330Hp - 400Hp, and now we have the 6.1L Hemi 390Hp - 425Hp, and the 7.0L ZO6 engine 505Hp, still using pushrod technology. That's alot of displacement.

We've all heard the comment, "there is NO replacement for displacement" from domestic lovers and most drag racers, but here goes my beef, I read an article about the Gas consumption of the High end 'Super Cars', and I was shocked and disapointed, as much as most owners and some of the companys brag about their high output engines, the fuel economy SUCKS!!!

BMW (by the way, I love their cars) bragged that they went from a 5.0L V8 with 400Hp to a 5.0L V10 500Hp, an extra 100Hp, without increasing displacement, but the funny thing is that the 06 M5 can only get 12 miles per gallon, that is even worse than a Suburban SUV, and the Modena with it's 390HP 3.6L V8 only get's you about 12 or 13 mpg, now correct me if I'm wrong, if we bash the Hemi with it's 6.1L V8 and 390Hp, but it get's 14 - 15mpg, all the exotic car manufucturers have done is increased the fuel consumption of their small displacement engine, to make up the extra power..........."THIS IS THE SAME FOMULA" with a small twist...........speed up the rpm and the injector flow, and you've got big numbers, but they are even LESS efficient at producing power than the domestic big blocks.

Look at the comparison:

06 Veyron W16 8.0L 1000Hp 8 / 15 mpg
06 Murcieglo V12 6.0L 660Hp 9 / 13 mpg
06 DB9 V12 ?L 440+Hp 11 / 18 mpg
06 Gallardo V10 5.0L 500Hp 11 / 18 mpg
06 F430 Ferrari V8 4.3L 400+ Hp 12 / 18 mpg
06 M5 & M6 V10 5.0L 500Hp 12 / 18 mpg
06 Hemi SRT V8 6.1L 425Hp 14 / 20 mpg
06 M3 I6 3.3L 333Hp 16 / 23 mpg
06 ZO6 Cov V8 7.0L 500Hp 16 / 26 mpg!!!

Now correct me if I'm wrong but, how the HELL does a 3.3L 6cyl consume MORE gas than a 7.0L V8, and produce 167Hp LESS Hp!!!!!! Look at the F430, cost almost 3 times the ZO6, can't catch up with it, and gives you such a crappy efficiency rate of power production, NOW THAT SUCKS in my opinion.
Ok, ok, ok, I know we are going to get the usual defenses like, exotic 'metology' or some crap, which I give props, I doubt you will ever get 10, 000rpm from your street ZO6 with the same engine for more than a month, but if I can get 500Hp at 6000rpm, I really don't need 10, 000rpm. Get the right gearing, and you can go past 200mph, get better gas mileage and save tons of $$$. Whether you are going to state that the people who buy these cars don't care about the 'gas mileage', I still think it is a rip off!

I used to have a friend that we worked with on cars, and he's sole principal when it came to engine swaps was "eh main, why'nch you slap a small block chevy in dat biatch? You'll be snatching gears all the way to third.....". I had a 95 240sx I got as a project car, and I was in the process of swapping a V6 in it, and all we could do was argue, because he kept telling me it would be much cheaper to swap that small block, get 400Hp easy with minor mods, instead of spending all that cash on expensive parts and engine tweaks and mods. I kept telling him I was in it for the props as I wanted to open a shop eventually, and that was the easy way out, and a small block couldn't handle the high RPM I wanted (this was before I knew anything about gearing and shit, so my fomula for speed was +9000rpm = +180mph). Now years later, I've sought of adopted his concept. I remember when I was reading the stats on the M5 and the ZO6, and all I could dream of, was getting a ZO6 with an M5 V10 swap, (I like the M5 & M6, but they are just too heavy)..............now all I can think of is 'slapping a small block chevy in dat biatch'.

If I'm coughing out $90, 000 + for some sports car that claims 400Hp, and drinks more gas than my moms Navigator, I think that's crap, I can understand the fuel consumption of this like F1 cars, they atleast give you +15, 000rpm and can do it for 24hrs straight........

But after looking at the numbers, are these exotics really worth the hefty price? Looking at this scenario from an enthusiasts point of view, we happily cough out the extra bling for them for the technology they poses, but with the new ZO6, hardly do they hold such a pull on me anymore, yes there folks out there with more cash than they can spend, and even more who will buy the latest Ferrari and never go past 90mph, but for the true enthusiast who is buying the car not just for shock appeal but mostly for it's performance, I think the high end price tags are highly overrated.For the price they are charging on these cars, they had better do a better job at the efficiency.

Oh, here goes another one, they made fun of the GT Stang because it's a 4.6L V8 and only produces 300Hp, while the M3 is a 3.3L 6Cyl and produces 333Hp, but the GT gets you 21 / 27 mpg, and there are Stangs out there pushing +400Hp and can still get you better consumption than the M3, and wil still leave you with over $8, 000 left in your wallet for suspension tweaks, so, can we really keep bashing Domestics with there neanderthal 'pushrod' or OHV technology???


I'd like to hear your opinion on this......................
__________________


Ain't this the pretiest motor or what?

Fines are the fee you pay for the privilege of driving as fast as you want
SHO411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2006, 03:27 PM   #2
G-man422
AF Fanatic
 
G-man422's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 5,145
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via AIM to G-man422
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

I see what you're saying, but if you can buy any of those cars, usually gas prices arn't a big concern.
G-man422 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2006, 04:46 PM   #3
PlayStation3
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Port Charlotte, Florida
Posts: 1,446
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-man422
I see what you're saying, but if you can buy any of those cars, usually gas prices arn't a big concern.

very true
PlayStation3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2006, 03:40 PM   #4
bluevp00
AF Enthusiast
 
bluevp00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: CHI, Illinois
Posts: 527
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

The gearing of exotics also play a huge role in fuel economy. The new American muscle cars (i.e. Corvette, Mustang, Charger, etc) all have the high gears (overdrive) tuned for better highway fuel economy, NOT top speed. The engineers of exotics don't really seem to care about highway fuel economy much.

Another thing to consider is the selling market. All new American muscle cars sell for under $80,000(except for the Ford GT), and in most cases under $45,000. The manufacturers of these cars need to SELL these cars to the rightful audience, which is the upper middle class. To sell they need two things, high horsepower numbers, and 'passable' fuel efficiency ratings. Take for example, the `06 Impala SS: 5.3L V8, with 28 MPG on the highway. The 6.0 Corvette gets the same mileage. Why? Displacement On Demand technology, really the only way GM could sell such powerful cars to the general public. And boy did it work.

Exotics on the other hand, sell themselves. Sure, there is competition among exotics, but they don't try nearly as hard to bring in customers as other companies do (when was the last time you saw the words "Ferrari Clearance"?). But when you make $700,000 per year, spending $60 of gas to drive your new Lambo one day a week isn't all that much. Hell, the cigar you're smoking probably costs more. The cost is nothing compared to the driver's own personal satisfaction of piloting his or her dream car.

Now just think if exotic manufacturers started implementing Displacement On Demand technology or something similar to curb fuel consumption until it's needed. I could just see it now: "New 2009 BMW M5, 640 HP! 25 MPG!"
bluevp00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2006, 03:51 PM   #5
G-man422
AF Fanatic
 
G-man422's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 5,145
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via AIM to G-man422
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Well put.
G-man422 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2006, 04:11 PM   #6
drunken monkey
Razor Sharp Twit
 
drunken monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: london
Posts: 5,861
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 21 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

wait, so your position that some cars not being better is based on the mpg?
so, handling, quality, invested technology etc. doesn't have any bearing on the "better" ratings?
__________________
AF's Guidelines

Read them.

__________________


Currently in the process of re-hosting my photos.
If any go missing, drop me a PM.
drunken monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2006, 02:23 PM   #7
C2Z06
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gastonia, North Carolina
Posts: 276
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to C2Z06
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

I'd take and M3 over a Mustang GT any day of the weak. The quieter and smoother ride that would destroy the GT on my streets because of the curves in my area. We're lucky to get a 100yrd straight away. Down a 1/4mi strectch of our rode a stock RSX-S would destroy a stock 72 Chevelle LS6 do to curves but I digress.

I think what the OP is getting at is overall balance of the car and the fuel efficiency should be factored in. With C5 Z06 owner getting 30mpg hwy @ 80mpg avg for a road trip, 405hp, 400lb-ft and still hang with a 911turbo/360 Modena in the curves for a fraction of the cost is incredible. Chevy got it right with this car (well dash materials could be slightly better). But how much of a freak'n snob would have to be to let that deter you? The C6 Z06 has been known to get 27mpg around 82mph and the braking, 1/4mile, skidpad and emergency lane change ability is insane along with it's near 200mph top end.

If I had the money, I'd take the Z06 over any other car. If I was only allowed to get a convertable with $$$ as no limit...360 Modena-just look at how sexy she is and since you can't get the C6 Z06 in a convert!
C2Z06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2006, 08:38 PM   #8
GForce957
AF Enthusiast
 
GForce957's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Invalid
Posts: 2,654
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevp00
The gearing of exotics also play a huge role in fuel economy. The new American muscle cars (i.e. Corvette, Mustang, Charger, etc) all have the high gears (overdrive) tuned for better highway fuel economy, NOT top speed. The engineers of exotics don't really seem to care about highway fuel economy much.

Another thing to consider is the selling market. All new American muscle cars sell for under $80,000(except for the Ford GT), and in most cases under $45,000. The manufacturers of these cars need to SELL these cars to the rightful audience, which is the upper middle class. To sell they need two things, high horsepower numbers, and 'passable' fuel efficiency ratings. Take for example, the `06 Impala SS: 5.3L V8, with 28 MPG on the highway. The 6.0 Corvette gets the same mileage. Why? Displacement On Demand technology, really the only way GM could sell such powerful cars to the general public. And boy did it work.

The corvette doesnt use DOD, it just has a huge 6th gear.
GForce957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2006, 08:52 AM   #9
C2Z06
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gastonia, North Carolina
Posts: 276
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to C2Z06
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GForce957
The corvette doesnt use DOD, it just has a huge 6th gear.
C2Z06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2006, 04:32 PM   #10
RightWingZionist
AF Regular
 
RightWingZionist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 210
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

doesn't the new vette get 28mpg? I think that's pretty amazing for a 400hp car. Though it is pretty light.
NM someone stated that. But I think weight would have a great impact.
Also, "The new American muscle cars (i.e. Corvette, Mustang, Charger, etc) all have the high gears (overdrive) tuned for better highway fuel economy, NOT top speed" wait..doesn't a higher gear ratio give you better top speed AND mileage if you keep the rpm lowest at the highest gear?
RightWingZionist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 12:08 AM   #11
GreyGoose006
AF Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Norfolk, Virginia
Posts: 1,688
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

unless the gear is too high. a gear that is too high will reduce RPMs below the engines powerband. this wont likely happen on a car with 400 hp. this is more of a problem in underpowered 80's cars.
GreyGoose006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 02:46 PM   #12
samandiar
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Case in point. The 6th gear in the new Z06 is WAY too high. I was reading a test drive report in Hemmings Muscle Machines. They said they were cruising along at 90mph in 6th at less than 2k rpm. Try pulling to 200mph from there. Top speed is almost always reached in 5th gear in cars like this.
__________________
Move along, there is nothing to see here...
samandiar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 02:57 PM   #13
RightWingZionist
AF Regular
 
RightWingZionist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 210
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samandiar
Case in point. The 6th gear in the new Z06 is WAY too high. I was reading a test drive report in Hemmings Muscle Machines. They said they were cruising along at 90mph in 6th at less than 2k rpm. Try pulling to 200mph from there. Top speed is almost always reached in 5th gear in cars like this.
After redlining in 5th, how does it do after shifting in 6th? Will it drop like crazy?
I still think it is a great idea. I have a 95 accord v6; 4 speed auto it does 3k rpm at 72 mph so I wish I had an extra gear cause I know I can do 1500 instead and save gas.
RightWingZionist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2006, 10:04 PM   #14
samandiar
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Never driven one, so I'm not sure. Even if I owned one, I'm not sure that I'd try a top-speed run
__________________
Move along, there is nothing to see here...
samandiar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 11:11 AM   #15
C2Z06
AF Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gastonia, North Carolina
Posts: 276
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to C2Z06
Re: Do exotic cars deserve the bragging rights they claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyGoose006
unless the gear is too high. a gear that is too high will reduce RPMs below the engines powerband. this wont likely happen on a car with 400 hp. this is more of a problem in underpowered 80's cars.
The C5 Z06 @ 405hp got 30mpg cruising at 80mph. I read of someone doing some upgrades (whether or not it's true being the internet and all), and doing 80mph got 32mpg at 483hp.
C2Z06 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD


Bookmarks
Go Back   Automotive Forums .com Car Chat > Cars in General

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.

Community Participation Guidelines | How to use your User Control Panel

Powered by: vBulletin | Copyright Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
 
 
no new posts